Anyone heard of this?

[Larabananas]

Just found out that a family member (anti vax) will be staying 2m away from vaccinated people due to their concerns regarding vaccinesafety. I have never heard of this one and have no idea what to say to them. Why on earth do they think this and how do they expect to manage day to day life when so many people are vaccinated? On a practical level we have a small family wedding coming up and this sounds completely impossible to deal with! I would like to have some knowledge of the 'facts' so I have an idea of what to say/do!! Has anyone else heard of this?

@AnguaResurgam

Not many vaccines shed. The flu sniff does (which is why there is advice to keep newly immunised DC away from the elderly and vulnerable)

The old oral polio vaccine did (and there was precautionary advice for that too) but the current injectable does not shed, so that's lapsed)

Are there any others at all?

I think the rotavirus one does

@oohmethumb

Only anecdotally, not fact, but there is a belief that because vaccinated people are more likely to have asymptomatic or mild Covid, they are less likely to know they are infected, less likely to test and therefore more risky - to both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

That is my understanding too. The people I know who have been double jabbed are mingling more, not social distancing etc.

It's a win win situation. If the ludicrous theory is wrong, we are still spared having to be near them and if by a miracle they were right, hopefully the shedding will prevent further generations of brain dead losers being produced.

@Cindy974

From what I’ve seen and read some people are reporting unusual side effects after being around people who are vaccinated, mostly menstrual changes and abnormal bruising. The explanation given is vaccinated people are shedding spike protein which is causing these symptoms, I haven’t looked in to whether this rings true or not this is just from what I’ve seen on social media.

@Cindy974 it's complete nonsense and just more anti-vax misinterpretation of science

"shedding" is something that can happen with live vaccines - see polio for example. It is not possible with other types of vaccines.

as for the claim that vaccinated people pose a risk to unvaccinated because they may be more likely to be infectious, interesting take but I don't think it bears much weight.

The majority of people choosing not be vaccinated are those that believe COVID is not a risk to them (there are exceptions, but on a population level this is the case), so I would be surprised if they are living in fear of being infected. Secondly, vaccination reduces your chance of both being infected and transmitting the virus, you're far more likely to get it from an unvaccinated person than a vaccinated one.

@oohmethumb

Only anecdotally, not fact, but there is a belief that because vaccinated people are more likely to have asymptomatic or mild Covid, they are less likely to know they are infected, less likely to test and therefore more risky - to both vaccinated and unvaccinated people.

Nope.

Possibly a greater % of vaccinated people who contract covid are likely to be asymptomatic - but that is a quite different claim and true only because far fewer infections develop overall.

Regardless, the fact that everyone is contagious before symptoms show, possibly for as long as 10 days, makes the point moot.

Where did you get your data about why people don't want vaccines @ollyollyoxenfree? Everyone I've come across has a medical reason, is TTC, pregnant, or wants to wait a little longer to decide.

@oohmethumb

Where did you get your data about why people don't want vaccines *@ollyollyoxenfree*? Everyone I've come across has a medical reason, is TTC, pregnant, or wants to wait a little longer to decide.

it's obvious no?

A person will decide on whether to be vaccinated against COVID based on an assessment of the benefits versus the risks. On a population level (as I stated, there are always exceptions), people who deny or minimise COVID are far less likely to be vaccinated than those who are not. Why would you bother, if you genuinely think COVID isn't a big deal, and getting vaccinated won't make a difference?

This is not the same as stating that everyone who hasn't chosen to be vaccinated is doing it for that reason. However, people with a good understanding of COVID and it's risks who are choosing to not go ahead with vaccination for other reasons are unlikely to also be claiming that they are more at risk of vaccinated people than unvaccinated, as they have a good understanding of how vaccines work.

Do you're just guessing then @ollyollyoxenfree?

I don't think anything is obvious at all when you add in the serious nature of some of the reported side effects of the vaccine. In my experience people aren't saying 'the vaccine won't make any difference', they are saying 'the vaccine might do something catastrophic' and it's that risk they are balancing against the risk of Covid. I haven't seen any data though. I'd very much like to.

@oohmethumb

Do you're just guessing then *@ollyollyoxenfree*?

I don't think anything is obvious at all when you add in the serious nature of some of the reported side effects of the vaccine. In my experience people aren't saying 'the vaccine won't make any difference', they are saying 'the vaccine might do something catastrophic' and it's that risk they are balancing against the risk of Covid. I haven't seen any data though. I'd very much like to.

you're misunderstanding my post @oohmethumb

people who have a good understanding of COVID and vaccines, who have chosen not to go ahead with vaccination, are unlikely to also be claiming that they are more at risk of vaccinated than unvaccinated people, as they have a good understanding of (lack of) evidence behind this claim

The other thing about shedding is - So What!?

Even if it did happen, the only, and I do mean only documented and categorically undisputed evidence of it ever happening, with any other vaccine was with polio. In the 1950s. After contact with contaminated faeces.

There may be a theoretical risk with other live vaccines, but its never been unequivocally observed or proven.

There is absolutely no evidence or even theoretical risk with other vaccine types.

the stuff I've seen on social media this week alone beggers belief, firstly that people believe it enough to create the posts in the first place, and secondly that other people are gullible enough to give any of it credence because they put words like prion, shedding, spike protein and mRNA and reverse transcriptase in a paragraph.

It's a load of rubbish but I'd be very happy if someone like that stayed at least 2m away from me. Even further away would be even better.

@FixTheBone

The other thing about shedding is - So What!?

Even if it did happen, the only, and I do mean only documented and categorically undisputed evidence of it ever happening, with any other vaccine was with polio. In the 1950s. After contact with contaminated faeces.

There may be a theoretical risk with other live vaccines, but its never been unequivocally observed or proven.

There is absolutely no evidence or even theoretical risk with other vaccine types.

the stuff I've seen on social media this week alone beggers belief, firstly that people believe it enough to create the posts in the first place, and secondly that other people are gullible enough to give any of it credence because they put words like prion, shedding, spike protein and mRNA and reverse transcriptase in a paragraph.

yes

just in case the OP was looking for answers, this is only a theoretical risk with live attenuated virus based vaccines. This are old style vaccines where you are injected a "dead or weakened" version of the pathogen to stimulate an immune response. There is the chance the virus can revert back to a partially active form, which is then shed by the vaccinated person in something like faeces, potentially affecting non-vaccinated people.

The coronavirus vaccines do not do contain the full virus, there is nothing contained in them that could cause this to happen.