Sister had to sign a consent form for AZ !

[blessedbethefruits]

My sister lives in Italy. She had her first dose of AZ and has now been told she has to sign a contest form if she wishes to go ahead with her second dose of AZ.

The consent form lists the risks of the second dose and asks her to sign that she agrees that she is going against the government’s advice (Gov advise to have Pfizer as the second dose)

Her preference was to stay with the same dose and now she’s really put off with having to sign a consent form so hasn’t had a second dose at all..!!

I don’t understand why she has to consent to accept the risks of a second AZ but not to have a different vaccine altogether.

She did say a lot of people her age feel the same way, so surely a lot of young Italians will not be fully vaccinated if faced with this.

I think a lot of Europeans that had AZ as first vaccine have had Pfizer as second dose. Millions of people have had both doses of AZ, including myself and most people I know, but understand it’s a difficult situation when asked to sign a consent form.

In Italy you have to sign a form whichever vaccine you have, following the consultation with the HCP who will vaccinate you. It goes through the list of existing conditions you may have, and side effects you may experience from any of the vaccines. Based on that consultation, initially, the HCP decided if you would have AZ or not. The form itself hasn't changed o don't think. (I had AZ X 2 and my disclaimer form is the same as dp who so far has had Pfizer X 1)

I also had an extra disclaimer for my second dose which was really just a copy of the first one listing the potential side effects.

I don't know anybody personally who hasn't had both AZ doses, (as in they've had a mix) but Italy is very pro-vaccine and I doubt many people won't go ahead with the second dose. Though as far as I know, they haven't been using AZ anymore on first doses for a couple of months on anybody but that might just be where I am.

My knowledge matches completely the last post. The consent form in Italy is required anyway. But the quick interview pre-jab they do in the U.K. is (in my mind) the equivalent thing, you are just not required to physically sign it, and the last question is “are you happy for the vaccination to go ahead?”.
The question is more about the government advice. You don’t just consent to get the vaccine- you consent to have a vaccine different from the one currently recommended by the government (key word is “currently”, because the advice changes with the wind…). I think your sister took and informed decision and did the right thing. My mum (who’s in an older group, and would not actually be affected by this recommendation to mix vaccine, but is mightly anxious!) had a bit of a moment of confusion…but is now quite convinced to go ahead with 2nd AZ. I agree that the message by the Italian govt is inconsistent and confusing, and between that and social media there’s a risk of people freaking out and missing on the chance of completing the cycle of vaccination. I know of people in their early 20s who went to walk-in AZ open days just before the policy changed, and are now really put off…

@Geamhradh

In Italy you have to sign a form whichever vaccine you have, following the consultation with the HCP who will vaccinate you. It goes through the list of existing conditions you may have, and side effects you may experience from any of the vaccines. Based on that consultation, initially, the HCP decided if you would have AZ or not. The form itself hasn't changed o don't think. (I had AZ X 2 and my disclaimer form is the same as dp who so far has had Pfizer X 1)

@Geamhradh

Her husband decided to go ahead and have Pfizer as his second dose but wasn’t made to sign any such form.

My sister said the form she was given was asking her to sign that she’s confirming she’s going against the governments advice, which is to not have AZ as her second dose (which she wants but has now been put off)

Yes, that's unfortunate. Where I am the open days have only been for Pfizer since April. Dp had his first at an open day and we presumed he'd get AZ because that's what most of us had had, but then he was given Pfizer. This would have been about 8 weeks ago (he's got his second next week) so just after the decision in April by the EMA about AZ.
Thinking about the timing though, there can't be many young people left who had AZ for the first dose and now will have the possibility of a different vaccine for the second dose surely? The policy changed in April to give AZ only to over 60s.At about the same time they brought forward the second doses from 12 to 8 weeks. My second dose was May 4th. I wonder if I'd had any adverse reaction to the first one, I'd have been offered a different second one? Dunno.

What I do remain convinced of is there has been a very good smear campaign against a vaccine which has caused fewer deaths (if any of the clotting deaths are ever found to have been caused by any of the vaccines) than the one (Pfizer) which everyone wants.

Sorry, that was to @cherin. Typing slowly!

@cherin

I know of people in their early 20s who went to walk-in AZ open days just before the policy changed, and are now really put off

So they will be in the same situation as my sister.
She’s unsure about mixing but now put off by her second AZ dose.

blessedbethefruits a lot of EU countries are recommending women under 60 don't have Astra. My husband had it our GP here in Germany is only proactively offering it to men whose health records he's familiar with an whom he deems low risk, not to women (though women can specify they want it at their own risk), and yes they had a group speech to listen to on what the normal side effects are and when to seek urgent medical attention due to possible signs of thrombosis.

He had to sign a consent form, although I had to for Pfizer as well (a different, specific one).
The waiting list for those who prefer Pfizer are longer here, and Astra is an at your own risk option which fewer people are taking up so its easier to get, which is why he said yes when the GP's secretary called to offer him it, and he's been fine.

I work with vulnerable adults and both they and their legal guardians had two sign three sets of consent forms initially simply consenting to be vaccinated at all, then a new specific one for Astra when it first came out, then another set (which only a few signed) if still willing to have Astra after the thrombosis risk was discovered.

The love of arse covering paperwork is of course one reason its taken longer to get the vaccinations going here, but it's also good not to be told to suck up personal risk to loved ones for the greater good and not to dare ask concerned questions!

It’s far from ideal, yes.
Realistically I think most people will still want to have two doses- either because it’s unlocking movement and travel, or because the scare of Delta variant takes over there, as well.
But which vaccine to get…? I don’t know. Even a small number of people in an emotional country can make a lot of noise ;-)
I honestly believe it’s a stupid decision by the government, which undermines trust in an effective, cheap and widely available vaccine- but am not a doctor!!
I’ve personally had two AZ and would get a second dose of the same if I was in the situation, perhaps I’d be happy to mix at the third dose…

We were told as an aside during some training at work that a recent study has shown early indications are that mixing vaccinations is more effective than two the same, but I feely admit to not having looked anything up to see what the research actually is.

What difference does signing the form make? She must have educated her self enough to understand thr risks and that she is indeed going against advice? Or does she not understand?

They went through the consent process in the U.K. too - it's normal. We didn't actually sign but we had to agree to everything and my dd (who had AZ before the blood clot thing came to light) was given a list of specific things to watch for at her appointment I accompanied her to

You have to give consent in the UK too.

When I had my second vaccine "the computer was down" and everyone had to fill in a paper form stating that they gave consent. Normally this would be captured online.

I wonder if this is to do with that awful incident also in Italy, where an 18 year old had their first dose and sadly died.

I'm 37. I've had two AZ jabs and tbh, I was a little hesitant having the second dose as, by then, all the negative press was everywhere and I will admit I was a little worried. But, in the end I decided that I'd be more at risk of actual covid than the jab, (especially a second dose), and mixing wasn't an option here afaik, so I did it. It was three weeks ago and thankfully I had really mild side effects.

If she was fine the first time, chances are she'll be fine this time, but I wouldn't have felt great about signing a form like that I don't think. I'd probably have done it if it was sign it or no vaccine though, as I want to be able to do as many normal things as possible now. To the point where I would be willing to taste the risk now.

Take the risk*

The 18 year old had a blood clotting disease which she and her parents neglected to tell the vaccination hub about.

That's so sad, and maybe that's why they introduced the form as I said. Maybe.

No, I had mine in March and we had the form. She died in May.
After the initial hoohah and finger pointing at both the vaccine hub and AZ in general, it was quietly dropped from the news stories- you can't after all level blame on a dead person. People have commented that as it was an open day, she went along with friends and because there was no specific "do you have X disease?" , she didn't tell me she had X disease iyswim? Apparently the same day she also went for her usual injection of the therapy she had for her condition.
Nobody will ever really know, and yes, in this particular case, AZ was probably to blame, because the patient had a condition that would have precluded AZ had it been known.

Random "me" in there, sorry!

Ah thank you for clarifying. Poor girl. Very sad.

@Bluntness100

What difference does signing the form make? She must have educated her self enough to understand thr risks and that she is indeed going against advice? Or does she not understand?

@Bluntness100

I do not think she has an issue with signing the form, more that she’s signing a form that states she’s accepting a vaccine which the government do not advise her to have.

They are advising her to have Pfizer following AZ.

I’m in the UK - where we do not mix vaccines, so I completely understand how worried my sister is feeling.
It’s a worry that she’s being asked to sign that she’s taking a risk, against official advice, for accepting a vaccine she’s already had.
Yet they are advising her to mix a vaccine when there’s not sufficient evidence that this is even safe.

I'm 31 and I have had both vaccines and was given the AZ.

At my second dose, I had a form that I had to complete listing the side effects (including blood clotting). This wasn't given at my first dose.

@ChunkyMonkey2020

Are you in Italy too?