Can you contest a notification to self-isolate?

[ReviewingTheSituation]

My DH had an isolation notification last night through the T&T app. It says he has to isolate for 7 days, ending midnight on Saturday.

It said the 'contact' (that wasn't the word it used, but can't remember the exact one) was on Wednesday, and the 'notification date' was Thursday (I assume this is the date the positive test was logged).

However, we were on holiday last week, and on Wednesday we didn't do anything that could possibly constitute 'close contact'. We checked out of our SC accommodation (didn't see a soul - just left), drove to a beach, had a long walk over the cliffs, drove to another beauty spot and had another long walk, bought a coffee from an outdoor kiosk (so spoke to another person, but behind a screen, outdoors, and for a couple of minutes max).
Checked into new accommodation (contactless - used a keypad to get the key, didn't see a person), then went for dinner. We sat at the most distanced tables I've seen - several metres apart. There was no-one on the table closest to us, and the next nearest table was several metres away (the other side of a walkway). Ordering was by app, so the only contact with staff was the few seconds where they delivered drinks and food to the table.

From what I've read, you have to isolate if you've been within 2m for 15 mins or more, but we weren't within 2m for more than a few seconds all day.

Can he contest the isolation request, and if so - how do you go about it?

What do you mean contest it? Isolation is purely self enforced.

I would probably just delete the app and move on.

Not sure about 'contesting' - would you just ignore in these circs and turn your t and t off?

Do you have a t and t app? Presume it didn't notify you. Did you and your DH go anywhere different from each other in the specific time?

An isolation request from the app isn't a legal requirement - you would only be legally required to isolate if contacted directly by test and trace - so essentially there is nothing to contest. The app doesn't communicate your personal details to anyone, it is "advice" - so no one can rescind it, if you see what I mean.

This is why many people who downloaded the app deleted it soon afterwards......but now you've had it I think you're up for a 10k fine if caught out.

By 'contest', I mean can we contact T&T and get clarification of where it's come from? I fully understand they don't know WHO the positive person is, but they must have data about where the alleged contact was?

@PatriciaHolm - I can't find this information online (although it's exactly what I was hoping to hear!) Can you point me in the direction of where it says this officially?

We didn't go anywhere separately on that day, but we have different phones/different networks, so may well have different levels of sensitivity to picking up signals. From what I gather, phones can pick up signals quite randomly.

I know someone who accidentally turned off notifications on his phone. He noticed something was wrong with his phone so after a couple of weeks of going about his business as usual his son came round to take a look, and he turned notifications back on. First notification was along the lines of “congratulations, today is the final day of your isolation period!”

Delete the app

No dare in this but I don’t think the position has changed - not legally enforceable

www.yorksandhumberdeanery.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/nhs_phone_app_template_letter_v4.pdf

This is why I turned that feature off!

Test and Trace won't be able to tell you anything, they have no access to your app data. Which is why it cannot be legally enforceable, because there is no central record of who you are, or who has the app.

The Gov make it quite difficult to find it explicitly written that it's not a legal requirement, because they would rather you thought it was, but this says

"If you’ve been told to self-isolate by NHS Test and Trace, you’re legally required to do so. If you’ve been notified by the NHS COVID-19 app to self-isolate and you apply for the Test and Trace Support Payment, you will be legally required to self-isolate."

which suggests if you do not apply for support, the app notification is not legally enforceable.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/test-and-trace-support-payment-scheme-claiming-financial-support/claiming-financial-support-under-the-test-and-trace-support-payment-scheme

The app isn't enforceable.

I remember over Xmas reading about people testing positive and naming people they didn't like as contacts to T&T, to piss them off as you're not told who the contact was etc. So there's no come back there, if you're named, you're named.

It feels like quite the moral dilemma. On one hand I feel he should isolate, because it's about 'doing your bit' and all that, but on the other hand it feels like nonsense, because we both know full well that we were definitely within 2 metres of anyone on that day (even if the day was wrong, the 2 days either side of that were essentially the same).

He works at home anyway (was due to go in on Weds, but that can be changed), but he would normally go to the gym 2 evenings a week, and we have choir practice tonight (outdoors, within all the legal guidelines etc etc), which he would have to miss - I think that's the bit he's most annoyed about.

If he just deletes the app/ignores it, then it makes you wonder what the point is really! That's why I was wondering if there was an official way to follow up on it.

Just ignore it OP.

This is why I never installed it and why it's failed. Nobody is going to shut themselves up for ten dats based on because the phone says so.

Clearly you can see that you haven't had contact with anyone for enough time, so just ignore it then delete the app. If you really feel you need to do your bit, then go ahead and do it, but please delete the app.

If he just deletes the app/ignores it, then it makes you wonder what the point is really!

I get what you mean, but you also have to ask yourself what the point of isolating for 10 days when you've not had any meaningful contact with other people is.

Sounds like it’s not likely he’s been in contact on that day, and it’s not legally enforceable if it’s the app. But there is a chance he could have been, or the dates could have been mixed up. He could compromise and just be sensible, so go to the outdoors choir but not go to the inside gym.

I completely agree @ClaudiaWankleman!

I think if it was me, I would happily ignore (in these circumstances, when I know full well there has been no meaningful contact), but he's very 'by the book'.

At the end of the day, I guess it's his choice, and it doesn't stop me from doing what I want to do.

To those of you saying 'delete the app' - how are you checking in to venues etc? Giving name/contact number manually? That's such a palava for the poor venues to manage (who have enough to deal with as it is).
My understanding was that you couldn't be contacted to isolate on the basis of checking in somewhere, but that it was to track outbreaks/look at patterns etc - have I got that wrong?

I have turned contact tracing off, but still have the app for checking in.

@Overthebow - but there isn't 'a chance he could have been'. We were most definitely not within 2 m of anyone for 15 mins (which is the definition of close contact) at any point on that day (or the days either side). We were barely even indoors. The only person he was within 2m of for any time more than a matter of seconds was me!

I don’t have the app, I just sign in at each venue by using paper forms. Haven’t been turned away from anywhere yet.

You can also be asked to isolate if you had face to face contact with someone less than 1m away for any time period , regardless of mask etc. Could it have been the person serving coffee at the kiosk? It’s possible the phones were within one metre if if they weren’t. Also someone with a phone could have walked within one metre of you whilst you were sat at a table.

From gov.uk

I’ve never been asked to use the app for a venue. Usually they have their own web forms? I’m in Scotland though.

It's possible that someone else checking into your first accommodation after you left it might have tested positive, or perhaps the people who left your second accommodation that morning, or the person who cleaned it, might have tested positive the following day. I don't know what the time window is (given that you don't check out of a venue, how do they know how long you are there for?)

OP, you can switch off the contact tracing on the app but still use it to check in. Or switch off Bluetooth on your phone and then the contact tracing doesn't work. The app really hasn't worked properly unfortunately.