Pressured to return to office but cases rising locally. Where is their duty of care?

[Nutsoh]

Despite WFH successfully since last March we’ve been told over the past few weeks that our offices now have to be manned to 50% in a bid to transition back to full occupancy.

Some managers have turned the thumbscrews on their teams to —force— encourage part of their departments back, they’ve pushed the teams that have a lot of static equipment back in FT and allowed those with laptops the benefit of coming and going when they please with their laptops.

Despite the 2m rule we are allowed to sit in the office, anything up to 10 of us without masks, just needing to put masks on to walk around. There is a one way system but the kitchen is a free for all and you can go into the toilet right after someone else has just used it even though ventilation is poor.

So, I didnt have too much of an issue with this but cases are now rising locally and I feel it’s only a matter of time that it’s going to go through the office. We’ve all had at least one jab but I’m starting to feel a little anxious about someone getting it and it running through the whole building.

So, from a duty of care POV, if someone gets Covid through work and it leaves them seriously I’ll or with long Covid where does that leave the company legally seeing as they’ve more or less forced people back in despite the guidance still being to WFH if you can.

Can people take action against their company if this happens?

It’s irrational for businesses to insist that employees come in to the office if they can work perfectly well from home, just because they are tied into the lease for the office building!

Employers don't make business decisions based on Sandra enjoying going for a jog on her lunch break or Steve pottering around the garden between phone calls. It's not all about employees new found freedom. Wfh might have been ok for a temporary measure for many businesses but it was never permanent. Some people need to accept that it's ultimately their employers decision where the workplace is no matter how much they think it works well (for them).

Maybe they should! We need to move past this outdated idea that you can only be productive if you're at your desk in an office 40 hours a week. Most people work much better when they're generally happier and healthier, and have some flexibility to work in a way that suits them.

Obviously in rare instances people will take the piss and not do anything unless closely supervised, but most adults have the capacity to be disciplined enough to get the work done to the very best of their ability even when no one is watching. And by now employees will know who has been working well remotely and who hasn't, so why punish the ones who're working well from home?

My current job is 100% remote (pre- and post-pandemic too) and I've rarely worked so hard and felt so committed to putting the effort in. Mostly because I genuinely like the business I work for but also because they treat me as an adult who doesn't need someone watching over my shoulder all the time - they see the results of my work on a daily/weekly basis anyway, and don't care if I've produced those results from my sofa or at 8pm after having time off during the day.

Generally I think people that take the piss wfh are also the ones that take the piss in the office (but have more opportunity to at home). The majority who work hard and produce results at work will do so at home.

@nordica

Employers don't make business decisions based on Sandra enjoying going for a jog on her lunch break or Steve pottering around the garden between phone calls. It's not all about employees new found freedom. Wfh might have been ok for a temporary measure for many businesses but it was never permanent. Some people need to accept that it's ultimately their employers decision where the workplace is no matter how much they think it works well (for them).

Maybe they should! We need to move past this outdated idea that you can only be productive if you're at your desk in an office 40 hours a week. Most people work much better when they're generally happier and healthier, and have some flexibility to work in a way that suits them.

Obviously in rare instances people will take the piss and not do anything unless closely supervised, but most adults have the capacity to be disciplined enough to get the work done to the very best of their ability even when no one is watching. And by now employees will know who has been working well remotely and who hasn't, so why punish the ones who're working well from home?

My current job is 100% remote (pre- and post-pandemic too) and I've rarely worked so hard and felt so committed to putting the effort in. Mostly because I genuinely like the business I work for but also because they treat me as an adult who doesn't need someone watching over my shoulder all the time - they see the results of my work on a daily/weekly basis anyway, and don't care if I've produced those results from my sofa or at 8pm after having time off during the day.

This is my experience too - both for myself and the people that work for me. It has been working well from a business perspective. Challenges around overwork are much more of an issue (given there is less "off" when you WFH) are in fact much more of an issue. The WFH itself is not a problem for us and for many others, except for a core group here that seem to be oddly frustrated by others being able to do it.

I don't care where anybody works if wfh works well for a business and employers are happy, great.

What annoys me is when employers want to bring staff back into their original work place and people are crying 'unsafe' and 'because covid' etc etc...

As long as there are precautions to ensure people are able to keep a distance etc, the staff should suck it up or find a job that allows them to work from home. They can of course make a request to work flexibly, but just because they felt it worked (for them) during the pandemic doesn't mean employers have to continue the arrangement 🤷🏼‍♀️

I think companies should be taking note of their senior management who lack the ability to adapt to a changing world, and just want to go backwards to how things used to be.

It's a fast-paced ever-changing world. Companies need to be agile and creative nowadays - not rigid and stuck in the past.

There's not much use at a senior level for inflexible thinkers who can't recognise that the world has changed. It shows a lack of understanding of the situation I would be concerned about.

We have found that the companies who have got on board with wfh and invested in it, are far better to deal with than the short-sighted ones who persist in their assumption that this is "temporary" and that things will go backwards to 2019 soon. We made allowances last spring and summer, but after 15 months a situation is no longer short term and temporary.

Hybrid working will be the norm in most office-based jobs from now on.

It has advantages and disadvantages for everyone. But so does the old "9-5 commute 5 days a week to an office block where the windows don't open" scenario.

In any forward looking company, things aren't "going back."

Oh get a grip! You've had the vaccine, time to get back to work. Did you plan on hiding away forever?!

@flowerpowerss

Oh get a grip! You've had the vaccine, time to get back to work. Did you plan on hiding away forever?!

If you can work from home and your role allows that, it makes good sense to wfh. One jab provides little protection and we are going into the next wave.

I have long term organ damage from the first time I had covid, so prefer not to catch it again.

If you and your colleagues have been vaccinated (and even if you haven’t) the risk of severe illness or death is minuscule. Five years ago you’d never have dreamed of telling your employer you don’t want to come into work in case you catch the flu on the train or because there’s a risk of you crashing your car when commuting. I think we’ve reached the stage with COVID where it’s just one (small) risk among many that we just need to accept is part of our everyday life.

Would you feel more comfortable if everyone was doing daily lateral flow tests and sharing the results with their employer and the results verified independently? This is an option in the NL and could become available in the UK using private test suppliers. But only if employers see a need for it to retain staff and ensure a higher level of safety than the minimum requirements of the HSE. Your employer is meeting the minimum standards required. But there is nothing to stop you recommending additional measures. The test service I mentioned above is called consentry look it up if you think it might help.

@Loverofoldfilms if you've had one jab you clearly weren't classes as high risk to begin with so the risk was always low.

@BeckyWithTheGoodHair5629456

Plenty of people have worked throughout lockdown. Healthcare professionals, teachers, cleaners, supermarket staff, workers in manufacturing... etc etc etc. You're being ridiculous.

I really don't want to agree with this because it sounds mean but... well... this. Covid is not going away any time soon. As someone who has worked as normal throughout, i know my (unpopular) opinion is really biased but I am starting to feel resentful of the entitled wfh brigade. Just get on with it like the rest of us

Oh get a grip! You've had the vaccine, time to get back to work. Did you plan on hiding away forever?!

And what if she does.

Why is it time to go back? Everyone us acting like they have never heard of flexible working before and that everyone has to go back or they are somehow lacking.

Like it makes you morally superior to go back happily. And having concerns is stain on your moral fibre.

In my work we have the luxury of being able to work fully from home so there really is no need to go back right now. As a manager I won’t be demanding that anyone comes in as I don’t want blood on my hands if they do, worst case scenario, contract covid. There is just no point.

I don't think YABU here.

''If it was me, I would ask to clearly discuss with the most senior management you can, why you cannot continue WFH longer when you had done this for so long and when this is still Government guidance, where possible.''

Cases are rising and each case carries a risk to the person with it and those around them. The less people mixing and passing it the better - for everyone. If you don't need to work around others (and share toilets etc) then why would you?

I think OP is sensible to consider this.

Five years ago you’d never have dreamed of telling your employer you don’t want to come into work in case you catch the flu on the train or because there’s a risk of you crashing your car when commuting

Why not? Anyone can put in a flexible working request and your company can't judge it on the reason you want it.

@Nutsoh

Despite WFH successfully since last March we’ve been told over the past few weeks that our offices now have to be manned to 50% in a bid to transition back to full occupancy.

Some managers have turned the thumbscrews on their teams to —force— encourage part of their departments back, they’ve pushed the teams that have a lot of static equipment back in FT and allowed those with laptops the benefit of coming and going when they please with their laptops.

Despite the 2m rule we are allowed to sit in the office, anything up to 10 of us without masks, just needing to put masks on to walk around. There is a one way system but the kitchen is a free for all and you can go into the toilet right after someone else has just used it even though ventilation is poor.

So, I didnt have too much of an issue with this but cases are now rising locally and I feel it’s only a matter of time that it’s going to go through the office. We’ve all had at least one jab but I’m starting to feel a little anxious about someone getting it and it running through the whole building.

So, from a duty of care POV, if someone gets Covid through work and it leaves them seriously I’ll or with long Covid where does that leave the company legally seeing as they’ve more or less forced people back in despite the guidance still being to WFH if you can.

Can people take action against their company if this happens?

There are 31 children and adults everyday in my classroom with no social distancing so....

Unfortunately the same person could have caught it at the supermarket or gym, on the train in the local off licence or newsagent. There isn’t really any way to prove they caught it in the office, even if someone else in the office is diagnosed first they still could have caught it from an independent source. To be fair the risk is not high, I work in a small shop and altogether there are 5 staff members, the manager caught it in late October (probably from a non mask wearing customer) and the only person who caught it was myself, my first symptom was about a week after his and I did not catch it in the shop, I unfortunately live with him, and caught it after we were already isolating

I work in a SEN school and we were FULLY OPEN throughout all lockdowns and holidays…as instructed by government. Our children are severely disabled and no longer able to access the vast majority of what they would normally do. We were/are all very vulnerable.

I wish people knew how lucky they were to be able to WFH…because loads of people haven’t had this luxury for so long.

I find it infuriating that people refuse to return to work but are happy to go on holiday, day trips, see friends and family etc.

Time for you to crack on and pull your big girl pants up and get on with it

Get back to work. Nurses have worked, care home staff have worked, dustmen have worked the people on the checkouts have worked, delivery drivers have worked my husband has worked in his factory. Some people just dont want to go back to work. It will backfire on you when employers realise that they can get people in India to do your job for a fraction of what you earn. It has already happend to my friend. The bank she worked for sent all her work to India and made her redundant.

I do not know the company's liability. I will tell you this...with one jab, you are about 80% protected, and the chances of it becoming an issue are very small.

What u have described is what many have been doing since May. Employers dont care. Glasgow was in highest level in UK but business as usual for many workplaces

You are being ridiculous and are contributing to this madness continuing! There is a vaccine and just about all the vulnerable who want it have been given both doses. Your attitude is selfish the country is on it knees and just because you are happy working in your happy home we need the country to get back to normal! The economy NEEDS people to get back to work the fact this has gone on for so long after after such a successful vaccination program is pathetic!! I wonder if you are happy to go for dinner? Go shopping go to your friends? Utterly self absorbed and selfish!

@wednesadaayaddams

I don't care where anybody works if wfh works well for a business and employers are happy, great.

What annoys me is when employers want to bring staff back into their original work place and people are crying 'unsafe' and 'because covid' etc etc...

As long as there are precautions to ensure people are able to keep a distance etc, the staff should suck it up or find a job that allows them to work from home. They can of course make a request to work flexibly, but just because they felt it worked (for them) during the pandemic doesn't mean employers have to continue the arrangement 🤷🏼‍♀️

Maybe they are "crying unsafe" because it is unsafe. Why should people "suck it up" if it means their health and perhaps lives are at risk and the business has no good reason for making them go in the office?

Maybe they are "crying unsafe" because it is unsafe. Why should people "suck it up" if it means their health and perhaps lives are at risk and the business has no good reason for making them go in the office?

Why is it unsafe if they have been vaccinated?? Honestly explain because the virus was extremely mild to most before a vaccine so now it is literally a cold!! The overreaction is unbelievable!!