Should sage members be stopped from talking to media.

[Againstmachine]

Every week there seems to be a talking head in media from sage who seems to make doom monger predictions this week it's Prof Semple who says we will possibly need winter lockdowns.

I don't think these people are helpful and think sage members ought not to be talking to the press.

One also wonders how much they are getting paid per appearance.

@RubyViolet
I want experts and scientists to have a voice in our society. I do not want to live under an authoritarian government.

But it’s this little group of SAGE scientists who are championing the authoritarianism. Why does no one see this? They are not elected, they are not accountable. They are pronouncing on all kinds of issues of policy - policy that has profound social impacts and tradeoffs - and calling it “Science!” and therefore beyond debate... that’s something out of an Orwellian novel if ever I heard it..

Sage don’t create policy. All they do is advise on potential outcomes and give alternative scenarios. That’s their remit. Government creates policy, and to date they have done that mostly too late to produce an outcome that in the long term will benefit us (economically, socially, in terms of mental health).

The fact that people believe that Sage is authoritarian when all they do is advise and largely get the brush-off for as long as possible from government policy-makers — it’s a manipulation which clearly benefits Johnson, Sunak, Hancock. You think their delayed or ‘poor’ decisions were made by scientists. You’re mistaken. They look ‘badly advised’. They usually haven’t been (occasionally have). Government has their own agenda here, don’t fall for it.

@Sbishka

Sage don’t create policy. All they do is advise on potential outcomes and give alternative scenarios. That’s their remit. Government creates policy, and to date they have done that mostly too late to produce an outcome that in the long term will benefit us (economically, socially, in terms of mental health).

The fact that people believe that Sage is authoritarian when all they do is advise and largely get the brush-off for as long as possible from government policy-makers — it’s a manipulation which clearly benefits Johnson, Sunak, Hancock. You think their delayed or ‘poor’ decisions were made by scientists. You’re mistaken. They look ‘badly advised’. They usually haven’t been (occasionally have). Government has their own agenda here, don’t fall for it.

I’m not saying the government aren’t also responsible- they are awful,l- but they are very much afraid- not wishing to be held to account- and in the pockets of sage as far as I can tell. And sage scientists are constantly on the radio pronouncing about lockdowns and all kinds of policy issues. They go wayyy beyond the behaviour of appropriate scientific discussion and are clearly loving the attention and influence they have. It really is appalling and I absolutely think they should stfu. Plus we need a new committee of scientists who are going to be much more objective and much less political.

Bizawit, however you’ve come to your conclusions about what’s after all a couple of hundred assorted people on various bits of Sage, you’re just wrong. After 17 months of huge amounts of unpaid work for the worst of all possible governments at the worst possible time, whilst doing their usual jobs as well, I don’t think anybody is relishing going on some shitty radio or tv interview where the presenter has no clue what to ask and everything gets spun into bollocks anyway.

It’s quite sad that they get so much shit but this is the country we are now, just a Daily-Mail-style comments culture based on whim, no clue how anything really works.

@Sbishka you are welcome to think I’m wrong, it doesn’t make me so.
And sage are not a diverse group of scientists- they are overwhelmingly dominated by one particular discipline and ideological perspective for example. There isn’t nearly enough transparency. If they find it oh so difficult to be on the tv and radio all the time then it should be a very welcome call that I and others are making- for them to stfu, and go back to doing their jobs.

So OP is suggesting effectively a reduction in accountability and public discussion of scientific issues that are crucial to the good management of the pandemic.

I think this is a frankly terrible suggestion.

@Sbishka you are welcome to think I’m wrong, it doesn’t make me so.

I bet you love using this very clever line

No we live in a democracy

How dare an expert be allowed on TV to say fact-based things I don't want to hear!

The problem is you have experts like michie whoes evidence isn't fact based.

Fair enough let them be heard but there needs to be a consensus rather than the random that at moment.

I agree OP they get too much airtime and are one dimensional in their thinking. It’s easy to come on TV saying we will need more lockdowns in winter when you have a guaranteed high salary and are enjoying your 5 mins of fame. It would be great to hear from a cross section of experts and members of the public to understand how covid restrictions are impacting them to offer some balance to the debate. As at the moment the MSM are really driving the narrative for prolonged restrictions

@toolatetooearly

How dare an expert be allowed on TV to say fact-based things I don't want to hear!

Damn all those experts giving their opinions.

I don’t think experts working in public health are prone to one dimensional thinking. It’s a complex role that by it’s nature has to take lots of things into account. I think what you actually meant there katie is that the experts have said something that disagrees with my non-expert opinion so I’m going to dismiss their opinion as one-sided despite the fact that I have no evidence of that.

There's always a handful of people who want to make a sacred donkey their master and do whatever it tells them to.

These people shun fact-based discussions - it is too difficult for their simple minds to cope with.

Better listen to public health and epidemiology experts than our government who have lied and messed up at every opportunity.

Currently we’ve about ten thousand times the rate of most of the rest of Europe and quite a few people in ITUs.

@justwanttodanceagain

There's always a handful of people who want to make a sacred donkey their master and do whatever it tells them to.

These people shun fact-based discussions - it is too difficult for their simple minds to cope with.

Yes indeedy, fact-based discussions are exactly what SAGE & Indy SAGE experts should be involving themselves in, on the media.

@justwanttodanceagain

There's always a handful of people who want to make a sacred donkey their master and do whatever it tells them to.

These people shun fact-based discussions - it is too difficult for their simple minds to cope with.

…and then there’s people who think any opposition of their opinion is evidence of their own superiority without further discussion…

It's really, really working when people have a problem with independent experts giving information and expert opinion to the media. This is how freedom of speech works and it's crucial.

Real 1984 stuff.

This

worrying

This is not a political point scoring session. This is the media reporting the news. The government aren't necessarily the news. Whatever is truthful, relevant and accurate is the news.