Friend’s Covid beliefs and how to respond

[Rocketearth]

I received an email from a friend in New Zealand (I’m also from NZ but live in the UK) and her beliefs and attitude to Covid had me reeling.

Turns out she’s a militant anti-vaxer, thinks all the world governments are colluding to control us all, jabs have microchips, refers to vaccines as ‘synthetic junk,’ it’s all utter garbage about how dangerous Covid can be and it’s nothing to worry about etc, it makes her furious that she had to homeschool/work from home for 5 weeks last year just for something that it doesn’t matter if it kills people who were going to die sooner anyway, and she shouldn’t have to be inconvenienced because of them.

The worst was that the people who are dying were going to die anyway so all they have got is “an express ticket to heaven,” it doesn’t matter that old and sick people are being affected the most because sooner or later something was ‘going to get them.’

And on and on it went. She also tells me that since splitting with her partner their mutual friends have cut her off and I seriously think I can’t blame them if this is any representation of her views (she was always quite opinionated generally).

Everyone is of course entitled to their opinion but I find her views abhorrent, particularly regarding it doesn’t matter if the old and sick die because they have got their “express ticket to heaven.”

New Zealand is one of the least affected countries in the world and the UK is one of the most ravaged by Covid and I find her just so insulting. She then says ‘rant over. So how are things in England? We don’t really see much on the news.’

I really don’t know how to respond to her email. I’m not a confrontational person but I’m torn between not being able to let this slide, and feeling like right now she’s not really someone who I can be bothered maintaining contact with.

@3cats2kids I would but she already said it doesn’t matter about those who are dying and thinks Covid is an excuse on death certificates anyway. Vaccines are ‘synthetic junk’ which she said she’ll never have, and won’t allow her 3 kids to have either, but then she takes medication for a minor condition, has had IVF, and has had cosmetic surgery three times under general anaesthetic but none of those drugs are ‘synthetic junk’ apparently

@Nikki078 you are probably right. We haven’t been in touch much in the last couple of years (no reason, life etc) and she says when she split with her partner two years ago all their mutual friends cut her off so it does make me wonder if people find her views (on anything) far too forceful in general conversation. The email was just a massive rant about Covid, a bit about her kids, and then a cursory ‘how are you’ and ‘how are things in England’ at the end.

Either don't respond at all or use the response suggested by @SecretKeeper1 which is excellent.

“Well the situation is completely different here so I absolutely disagree with pretty much everything you’ve said. Ask me again when you’ve read up on how the rest of the world is doing!”

People used to be able to be friends with people who didn't think exactly the same as them

All my friends think like me. That’s why they’re my friends

I have a "friend" like that. I said something along the lines of I respect your belief that the majority of us have had the wool pulled over our eyes, even whilst i disagree and feel its you whose thoughts have been hijacked. I further pointed out that the majority of the information she was bombarding me with was from either siscreditrs or far right freedom first organisations, and wondered why she would want to hitch her wagon to, for exampme, Austrakias version of Nigel Farage. I wished her well, told her I was surprised that she had been taken in by such far right consoiracists, as I hadnt thought she was that sort of person. I acceptrs that we're bith keen to be part of the solution, that our position on what the solution is very different to yours. And I asked her to stop sending me dangerously misrepresented far right propaganda.

I’ve had a (UK) friend like this. She wouldn’t agree to disagree and our friendship has cooled to be honest

It's says it all that she doesn't really care much about you since she doesn't know anything that's happening in UK. It's easy to miss if you are not interested, but if you have friend and family there, you would look, it's not that difficult these days.

I would totally ignore anti-vax bit and respond with general stuff.

@3cats2kids

I’d tell her COVID was killing hundreds of thousands in the UK but things have improved with the vaccine!

This. Then block.

There is absolutely no point whatsoever in doing anything except throwing the letter in the bin and forgetting about it.

Absolutely anything you have to say will not change a thing - it would be rather like you trying to explain to someone in ISIS that Allah doesn't exist.

Worst, the fact that she has ranted so much in the letter suggests that she wants a confrontation - it's a form of attention seeking like when a child starts "acting up". If you sympathise with her views, it reinforces them - if you argue with them, it reinforces them.

The only thing you can ever do in situations like this is avoid the subject completely - it's your choice whether or not it's worth the hassle for the friendship.

I wouldn’t reply, and back away from this friendship.

I am a scientist, working in pharma. This may affect my response. I'd poke the dragon and happily give her some facts, like the sequence of the virus showing it's a novel coronavirus, some data on the excess deaths, the impact of vaccination on the death rate and transmission rate. She would no doubt respond with another rant that I'd then ignore and not get drawn in. But you need to argue with people like this a bit so they become aware how extreme their views are. It's not kind to not question extreme views, people need to know when people disagree with them.

I’ve a friend who is an anti vaxxer and into conspiracies. We’re still friends, but respect each other’s differences. I don’t want to read/watch links so I asked her not to send them and by the same rule I don’t send her stuff that’s pro vax. We’ve actually learned a lot from trying to negotiate the friendship despite our differences. We also have some common ground though, eg we are both anti lockdown, but for different reasons. However, there have to be boundaries and you have every right to ask her not to send you stuff you find upsetting or offensive.

Depends how good friends you are and if you think the friendship is worth saving really.

I think your friend's experience of covid is very different to yours , she can't help that. However if you think her remarks are insensitive then you should tell her .
I think this pandemic has been a great divider and nobody has come through this experience unchanged. You may feel this is the end of the road for friendship, thats OK too .

@habibihabibi

Thats because the news in New Zealand is limited to rugby, the weather and property prices in Auckland.

Don’t be so fucking ridiculous.

"130,000 people have died in the UK, that's roughly a million years of people's lives lost. Things are pretty tough here. Be thankful for what you have. Take care."

Send. Don't respond again.

Don’t respond. You can’t reason with that level of stupid.

Cut her off.

No point replying - she’ll never change her way of thinking

I’ve lost a good friend to this sort of thinking. It’s like she’s joined a cult (though she would argue that we are in a cult). She’s fallen out with most of her friends as she can’t stop ramming her message down people’s throats. Her DH & kids is at the end of their tether...
I used to enjoy conversations with her about the various topics (5G, pizzagate, Bill Gates etc...) but she has turned to full-combat with her beliefs. Last time we met she sat over me, shouting “wake up!”
I pulled her up when she started sending me YouTube material & links that I do not want (she post his stuff on FB all day long). Trying to recruit me... She wasn’t happy & got personal very quickly! The things I would never say to her (concern for her daughters, mostly) she fired at me, no problem!
Haven’t spoken to her since. It’s sad, but there is no reasoning with her. I wouldn’t bother with your friend. I miss my pal, she was going to be Godmother to my son (and he was crazy about her, she helped me loads when he was born during lockdown). But she’s a different person now... Good luck to her!

A close family member is the same, she's CEV but refuses the vaccine.

Don't engage and don't respond.

She sounds vile. The conspiracy stuff is one thing, but the callous lack of care for the suffering and awful deaths of people she has dismissed as 'others'... I have had to distance myself, after an initial shock, from lots of people with similarly nutty/ludicrous/heinous views, since 2020.

We had a version of this recently, a militant, particularly ill-informed anti-vaxxer among a group of parents who mostly encounter one another in the park after school. Everyone was being terribly polite and offering counter-arguments — partly because this woman is a fairly recent immigrant with imperfect English — and she was aggressively fizzing about government control, face nappies, scams etc, until another mother came up and listened for a bit. This second woman originally came to this country as a Rwandan refugee who saw her family massacred, and has a low tolerance for bullshit. She simply held up her hand and said ‘I’m going to stop you there, X. What you are saying is stupid, and you saying it makes me think you are stupid too.’

Just read many of threads on here ,during lockdown and people complaining because it was only "the elderly and vulnerable that were dying" lots of people have these views .

@x2boys

Just read many of threads on here ,during lockdown and people complaining because it was only "the elderly and vulnerable that were dying" lots of people have these views .

lots of people have these views

Not true - only a small minority - however SM competely distorts the picture because they are a very vocal group and the vast majority of people simply avoid confrontation.

@x2boys

Just read many of threads on here ,during lockdown and people complaining because it was only "the elderly and vulnerable that were dying" lots of people have these views .

True. Foul.

Thanks again for people’s opinions and comments - makes me feel that I am not unreasonable to feel horrified at friend’s opinions and total lack of empathy, and I just don’t feel this person is someone who I want in my life.

I’ve just re-read her email and it’s so long, and full of statements that most people I think would find abhorrent to some degree. I don’t see the point in responding as when someone sends such a huge missive they are clearly on their own path and won’t be open to discussion.

I wonder if NZ had seen the death statistics of 130k like here vs the 26 there she might have a different outlook? Who knows, and I don’t feel like I want to find out.