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How likely that 4 LFT’s could be wrong?

121 replies

bellsoflemon · 12/06/2021 00:29

I do twice weekly LFTS’s Wednesday and Sunday.
I tested negative Wednesday.

As part of work I went to a lab on Thursday who required an LFT to be taken, which was negative.

Today i started with an awful cold, sore throat and feeling generally a bit run down.

I’m at a family bbq tomorrow so I did an LFT this morning which was negative, another one this evening which was also negative.

Have messaged in my family group to say I’m thinking of not going to BBQ and they’ve all told me the tests are negative and to still go.

OP posts:
VaccineSticker · 12/06/2021 11:17

Few points:
-Sore throat is actually one of the symptoms of the Indian symptoms.
-Lateral flow tests are very unreliable.

-And regardless of covid, people should be ready to avoid others if possible if they are not feeling well.

Syylvia · 12/06/2021 11:19

As others have said, the new varient is presenting with common cold symptoms..headache being the most common. Anosmia is not present at all in the new varient. LFT are very often inaccurate so I would be isolating and book a PCR test.

ExpulsoCorona · 12/06/2021 11:21

@AnxiousAlpaca

I’ve been in a similar position. I came down with cold symptoms this week. (sinuses headache, sore throat, generally feeling blah) I’ve fully vaccinated and post 3 weeks for the 2nd vaccine. I didn’t have any of the 3 symptoms that would indicate I needed to PCR test. So I’ve just done a LFT everyday, all negative. I figured as I was symptomatic my viral load would be big enough for at least one of them to show as positive if it was Covid. So given all the negative tests, the fact I’m fully vaccinated and that I had none of the warning symptoms that was enough for me to assume I was negative.
I disagree with you. I'm a GP in an area where rates are climbing with nearby surge areas and I'm seeing patients who are double vaccinated and testing positive. Luckily they are not very ill with it but still likely to be able to spread it. As mentioned earlier the most common symptoms of the Delta variant (which makes up 96% of cases in the UK) are sore throat, runny nose and headache: www.pulsetoday.co.uk/news/coronavirus/headache-runny-nose-and-sore-throat-top-three-symptoms-of-delta-variant-says-researcher/
yomommasmomma · 12/06/2021 11:21

[quote bellsoflemon]@yomommasmomma

Sadly according to the Zoe app, these are exactly the most common symptoms they are finding that young people who have caught the delta variant have

It was my understanding that the Delta variant was more severe so wouldn’t it present with more
severe symptoms? Ie high temp and bad cough.[/quote]
The symptoms age are having are exactly how it is presenting. I suggest you isolate until you get a negative result from a pcr test. Here is professor Spector of the Zoe App explaining it.

AnxiousAlpaca · 12/06/2021 11:36

@ExpulsoCorona the first thing I did was to use 111 to see if I should PCR test but I was told I wasn’t eligible. I’ve had no choice but to work this week so little I could do really. I’ve been as conscientious as I could about it and kept my distance from people, worn a mask and worked in an office on my own where it’s been possible. I’m still adamant it was a cold (as those of the symptoms I always get) and I’ve felt better day on day, practically back to normal now.

bellsoflemon · 12/06/2021 13:23

@Principessa2070

I wouldn't be impressed at you rocking up full of a cold either. Just because it's not covid doesn't mean everyone should be exposed to it!!

Perhaps you missed the part of my OP which said I had messaged in our family group saying I wouldn’t go, but they’re all happy for me to go (based on the fact I have non of the main symptoms and negative LFT)
I wouldn’t just “rock” up and expose others to it!

Anyway, I’ve had a PCR test and I will be staying home!

OP posts:
cantkeepawayforever · 12/06/2021 13:56

This is garbage - please DO NOT post about things you have no understanding about! You're treating them like tossing a fucking coin.
If one test doesn't register a +ve, the next test will give exactly the same result, unless the first test failed due to user error.

@strangeshapedpotato, the poster's working is right (though they have taken an optimistic view of the false negative rate).

The LFT's false negative rate depends on a) viral load, b) tester (unsurprisingly, test done by Porton Down scientists is more often correct - ie the same as a PCR would give - than one supervised by someone trained via video) and c) device. Minimum false negative rate (best device, high viral load, Porton Down) is around 25%. Maximum I have seen published (standard device, students supervised by trained volunteers) = 97%.

Each test's result is independent of the previous test (in the sense that if test A was a false negative, the probability that test b will be falsely negative is independent of this). The only caveat is that, in a developing infection, viral load is likely top increase and thus the false negative rate may go down a little.

Using 50% as a reasonable 'best case scenario' for false negatives:

If you are actually positive, but take 4 LFTs, your probability of 4 false negatives is, at best, 1/16 (2 to the power of 4 being 16) or 6.25%.

It is likely to be higher, because the false negative rate in normal 'unsupervised' use is likely to be higher. The Birmingham university study would put it at 88.5%, for example.

However, combined with that is the probability of being positive. I seem to remember that the latest ONS figure was about 1 in 560, so at a population level your probability of 4 false negatives while actually (randomly) positive = 0.01%.

The 1 in 560, though, is population level. If you are in Blackburn, and work in a school which has outbreaks, for example, then the 1 in 560 will grossly understate your probability of being positive.

strangeshapedpotato · 12/06/2021 14:07

@cantkeepawayforever

*This is garbage - please DO NOT post about things you have no understanding about! You're treating them like tossing a fucking coin. If one test doesn't register a +ve, the next test will give exactly the same result, unless the first test failed due to user error.*

@strangeshapedpotato, the poster's working is right (though they have taken an optimistic view of the false negative rate).

The LFT's false negative rate depends on a) viral load, b) tester (unsurprisingly, test done by Porton Down scientists is more often correct - ie the same as a PCR would give - than one supervised by someone trained via video) and c) device. Minimum false negative rate (best device, high viral load, Porton Down) is around 25%. Maximum I have seen published (standard device, students supervised by trained volunteers) = 97%.

Each test's result is independent of the previous test (in the sense that if test A was a false negative, the probability that test b will be falsely negative is independent of this). The only caveat is that, in a developing infection, viral load is likely top increase and thus the false negative rate may go down a little.

Using 50% as a reasonable 'best case scenario' for false negatives:

If you are actually positive, but take 4 LFTs, your probability of 4 false negatives is, at best, 1/16 (2 to the power of 4 being 16) or 6.25%.

It is likely to be higher, because the false negative rate in normal 'unsupervised' use is likely to be higher. The Birmingham university study would put it at 88.5%, for example.

However, combined with that is the probability of being positive. I seem to remember that the latest ONS figure was about 1 in 560, so at a population level your probability of 4 false negatives while actually (randomly) positive = 0.01%.

The 1 in 560, though, is population level. If you are in Blackburn, and work in a school which has outbreaks, for example, then the 1 in 560 will grossly understate your probability of being positive.

Each test's result is independent of the previous test (in the sense that if test A was a false negative, the probability that test b will be falsely negative is independent of this).

Nope - that is crap that you've simply made up.

If THAT was true, then official guidance on use of LF's would be to take 2 or 3, in order to massively increase the accuracy - they're not in short supply! As it is, we accept a 60% false negative rate because they're only intended to weed out asymptomatic infected who wouldn't otherwise be tested.

strangeshapedpotato · 12/06/2021 14:10

@ExpulsoCorona

It's both more transmissable AND more serious - estimate to double the risk of hospitalisation all other factors the same.

TheVolturi · 12/06/2021 14:25

They are not reliable at all. My ds had a positive one, confirmed by pcr. And on the same day and following day his lateral flow tests were negative.

ineedaholidaynow · 12/06/2021 15:06

@thesnailandthewhale have you taken a PCR test as well?

thesnailandthewhale · 12/06/2021 15:56

[quote ineedaholidaynow]@thesnailandthewhale have you taken a PCR test as well?[/quote]
I took one on Tuesday when my son tested positive, mine was negative. I was advised this morning by test and trace to take another one a I am now showing symptoms, so I have been and done that at the drive through centre and am awaiting my results.

CovidCorvid · 12/06/2021 18:07

[quote bellsoflemon]@0None0

You need to self isolate and take a PCR test

Can you please find me some official guidance that confirms the above for having a cold and a sore throat? I can’t find any.[/quote]
In the U.K. such symptoms aren’t on the official list to warrant a pcr. I believe in other countries they would be. Certainly I know of people with such symptoms who have fibbed, said they had a cough, had a pcr test and were positive. Which is probably what I’d do.

bellsoflemon · 13/06/2021 08:59

PCR negative! 🥳

OP posts:
MRex · 13/06/2021 10:03

Great! More importantly, do you actually feel better? Vicks First Defence and a paracetamol might help if not.

bellsoflemon · 13/06/2021 10:41

@MRex

I actually feel worse today. Throat feels like I’m swallowing razor blades and I’m so congested!😣
Will try the vicks, thanks!

OP posts:
MRex · 13/06/2021 10:49

Urgh. First Defence for the congestion and stick your head over a steamy bowl with a towel on top. For your throat, whatever cough medicine sounds soothing. Hope you get well soon. Flowers

Tippexy · 13/06/2021 11:06

@bellsoflemon

PCR negative! 🥳
As was expected, hope you feel better soon.
RosesandBluebells · 13/06/2021 16:43

@Tippexy

A cold and a sore throat are not indicative of Covid. Do you usually have anxiety?
LOL - this is why we have problems with the variant running wild just now.

Two of us in my household have covid, the sore throat hit me the very evening after I caught it and we’ve had bad cold symptoms non stop ever since.

MargosKaftan · 13/06/2021 16:59

Well that's good that its negative- but doesn't help you now!

There is some horrible bugs going round that aren't covid. Take lots of fluids and rest. Icelollies might be good for the sore throat.

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 14/06/2021 13:47

@Tippexy

A cold and a sore throat are not indicative of Covid. Do you usually have anxiety?
So these now are the main symptoms according to the news today.

www.bbc.com/news/health-57467051

A headache, sore throat and runny nose are now the most commonly reported symptoms linked to Covid infection in the UK, researchers say.

Prof Tim Spector, who runs the Zoe Covid Symptom study, says catching the Delta variant can feel "more like a bad cold" for younger people.

But although they may not feel very ill, they could be contagious and put others at risk.

Anyone who thinks they may have Covid should take a test.

Sounds like the OP did exactly the right thing. Hope you're feeling better soon.

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