CEV children still waiting for vaccine

[Tealightsandd]

There are 53,000 CEV children. Most are still waiting for a vaccine.

Other countries are already vaccinating healthy children - or at least prioritising those who are vulnerable.

Why are we not protecting our vulnerable children? Even if there's not enough supply to do all children yet, surely the most vulnerable should be prioritised.

disappeared more than a year ago and many are still out of sight. When the pandemic hit, 53,000 under-18s in England with disabilities that made them vulnerable to coronavirus began to shield at home

Kept off school long after their classmates went back, and away from friends, they have found their childhoods put on hold. And while the vaccine rollout gave high-risk adults some reprieve in the new year, those aged under 16, who have not been eligible for any vaccine, are still living in limbo.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/children-disabilities-priority-vaccination-england-education-shielding

My son isn't CEV ,but he starts high school in September,for children with severe learning disabilities and some children with profound and multiple learning disabilities,some of these children are tube fed and oxygen etc I'll be getting him vaccinated as soon as I'm able not just for him but he will be sharing transport ,school facilities etc with children far more vulnerable.

It will be a great piece of mind if my cv dc can get vaccinated. Multiple hospital admissions for simple virus until recent years, I would feel very anxious if my dc caught covid, even it's meant to be mild for children.

@TheKeatingFive

Well Pfizer has only just been approved for the 12-18 age group, so I presume CV of this age group will be prioritised immediately after the adult roll out is finished.

I also thought there was discretion for paediatricians to vaccinate vulnerable children if they thought the benefits out weighed any risks. I know of at least one child of this age who’s already had it.

It is extremely hard to come by this vaccination for vulnerable children. Some children who are bordering the age lines are more likely to be successful but again not very many of them. It isn't just down to the paediatrician either, where I am the decision has to go to a panel as well I believe but most arent even reaching panel because the paediatricians have absolutely no data to go on so in theory they can't really balance risk/benefits whenever they don't actually know what the risks of the vaccine could be within the age groups. I don't feel like it is a descision the government should have put onto individual doctors either without issuing guidance to help them reach the decision and given they don't seem to have guidance I can understand the reluctance of the consultants to push forward on vaccinating these children.

It is extremely hard to come by this vaccination for vulnerable children

Well I’m not saying it’s straightforward, but surely in the case of a child who is very likely to suffer serious consequences based on data available for their condition, someone in the medical community can make it happen.

Severe outcomes for even CEV children are still very rare, which is probably part of what’s driving hesitancy.

It’s tough, I appreciate that, but 12-16 year olds should be sorted soon, which is positive.

"Severe outcomes for even CEV children are still very rare, which is probably part of what’s driving hesitancy."

Is it rare because Covid is mild in children, or CEV/CV children has been taking measures to prevent them catching covid in the first place?

Well there’s plenty of global data now also which could help answer that question

@Chwaraeteg

Hmmm, my 3 year old dd is CV (was CEV until the last time the categories were rejigged). I don't think I would be happy about her being given an experimental vaccine I'm no anti vaxxer - in fact the things my dd has neen treated with in the past make most vaccines look like homeopathy in comparison - but I would be very cautious about givng her a rushed through, experimental vaccine that hasn't even been given to healthy children her age before!

You don't have to give it though.

Some parents want their children to be vaccinated and that's their choice too. At the moment they are unable to have their choice.

@roguetomato

"Severe outcomes for even CEV children are still very rare, which is probably part of what’s driving hesitancy."

Is it rare because Covid is mild in children, or CEV/CV children has been taking measures to prevent them catching covid in the first place?

I think this is more accurate of what is actually happening and certainly been the case in our household whereby our DC was at absolutely no risk of getting covid as a result of shielding all year. Many of these children are still not in schools, if they all returned to schools and normal lives (within the allowed restrictions) would we see more negative outcomes in children....I would imagine so. The only data available is also admissions, discharges and deaths, just because they go to hospital, don't die and are discharged does not mean that they have returned to full health and many will have had a further impact on their health long term as a result of covid.

I agree with June2021. @Chwaraeteg, I can totally understand the reluctance for you, but you don't need to try to put off other parents who want their children vaccinated, by saying the vaccine is "a rushed through, experimental vaccine that hasn't even been given to healthy children" . You must know that decision is up to each of us, and your view is skewed. If we have CEV/CV children, we have been through enough to make a decision without people telling us that our choice is something evil and wrong.

@TheKeatingFive

Well there’s plenty of global data now also which could help answer that question

In 12-15 age category yes there is now more data available and in some cases this has now led to vaccinations in CEV children in these age groups in the last week or so. I know of one child now who as a result of the approval of Pfizer this week will hopefully now be receiving the vaccine very soon that decision has been made by their consultant same day as approval for them to receive it, although it isn't in their arm just yet. No indication of when or if this will change for under 12's though.

I know of one child now who as a result of the approval of Pfizer this week will hopefully now be receiving the vaccine very soon that decision has been made by their consultant same day as approval for them to receive it

This is great and hopefully many other doctors will be taking confidence from the approval and do the same.

Surely it comes down to balance of risk. We only have so many vaccines available each day. Yes CEV and CV children are a higher risk than other children.

There are adults also wanting the vaccine. The adults who are going out working trying to stimulate the economy so we cam pay for hospitals and schools. There are reasons why almost everyone should be a priority.

Would you rather a few months ago the government went 'we don't know if it is okay for children but let's vaccinate anyway...'

A few months a go adults with higher risks (CV or age or just not quite meeting tge criteria) were having to wait while higher priority groups were done. Now is no different apart from children having to wait. We can't not vaccinate the whole country in one go it does take time. At the rate it is going it won't be long until children (if their parents agree to it) can be vaccinated.

3cats4poniesandababy, I can totally understand what you are saying. And I am not complaining. I will wait for my dc's tur to come. But a lot of parents are worried I'm sure, since the gov decided that the mask is unnecessary in school. And now someone started a thread saying we should ditch the hand washing/sanitizing in school too.

Would you rather a few months ago the government went 'we don't know if it is okay for children but let's vaccinate anyway

The government are not medical experts and not expected to decide on safety of medicines. That is the job of the MHRA, an independent body of experts, who this week approved this vaccine as effect and safe (based on a balance of risk and benefit) for children aged 12 and over.

And as regards a limited amount of vaccine. I would agree, except the government gave 700,000 doses to Australia (a rich country with its own manufacturing capacity, almost no Covid and very rigorous methods of dealing with any outbreaks). So there is more availability than is being used. Plus of course this week the government has said from next month it will start sending vaccines to the rest of the world (which I do agree with, but is does demonstrate that vaccine shortage is not a particular problem any more). Current issues with adults not getting vaccinated in the UK are more like to be due to the limits of the scale of the operation at the moment. For example, in the US, the scale of vaccinations is much much larger and correspondingly more people are getting vaccinated. The government/NHS could increase the scale of the vaccination programme in the UK if it wanted it, now that it is apparent that vaccine shortage is no a particular issue any more (see above, government wants to start vaccinating the world)

I thought it was only one day last week the Pzifer vaccine was licensed for children. Give them chance.

Well I’m not saying it’s straightforward, but surely in the case of a child who is very likely to suffer serious consequences based on data available for their condition, someone in the medical community can make it happen.

Ds's paediatrician knows of one child under 16 who has been allowed the vaccine off licence, as they are in residential care. It is extremely rare for a consultant to go off licence in order to vaccinate a child.

I have seen the point raised several times on Mumsnet, that Covid is mild for most children even those who are cev - with the implication on some threads that it has been overkill to shield these children, despite the fact that it may have been recommended by consultants and paediatricians, not just done on a whim.

I have also seen the point along the lines and of, 'what do you expect everyone to do, we can't close down forever because your child is vulnerable...'
Well no, clearly I don't expect restrictions to stay in place purely for my child, but I think there should have been a bit more planning and support for this small but vulnerable cohort - after all much has been made of supporting vulnerable children due to school closures, but maybe my child is the wrong sort of vulnerable?

And yes, it has only recently been approved for 12+ but a paediatric vaccine programme has been discussed since the beginning of all this, and medically vulnerable children have been shielding....but there has been little to no discussion of how and when these children may be prioritised or how they and their families can be supported whilst waiting for a suitable vaccine.

@roguetomato I wasn't trying to make it sound like giving your CEV child the vacvine was somehow wrong and eil! I've just had this sense recently, when I've jeard people talking about vaccinatimg children, that some people see CEV kids as a sort of almost disposable test group who should be exposed first before the vaccine has been rolled out to healthy children.

@3cats4poniesandababy

Surely it comes down to balance of risk. We only have so many vaccines available each day. Yes CEV and CV children are a higher risk than other children.

There are adults also wanting the vaccine. The adults who are going out working trying to stimulate the economy so we cam pay for hospitals and schools. There are reasons why almost everyone should be a priority.

Would you rather a few months ago the government went 'we don't know if it is okay for children but let's vaccinate anyway...'

A few months a go adults with higher risks (CV or age or just not quite meeting tge criteria) were having to wait while higher priority groups were done. Now is no different apart from children having to wait. We can't not vaccinate the whole country in one go it does take time. At the rate it is going it won't be long until children (if their parents agree to it) can be vaccinated.

The problem is that intelligent discrimination does not appear to be applied to this balance of risk,.

Hence children with conditions that would put them into Group 4 or 6 if adults remain not only unvaccinated, but crammed into schools, in conditions that would be illegal for adults, where also the prevalence of coronavirus is higher among their peers than among any other age group.

If any child were to get ill or die, the fact of having a medical condition would be brandished in the reporting as a reason not to be concerned somehow. It isn't good enough.

Chwaraeteg, then please stop saying rushed, experimental vaccine. It isn't rushed, it isn't experimental. That's something like what anti-vaxxer would say. And cev/cv kids in UK won't be a disposable test group, since millions of children in other countries have already been vaccinated.

Ds's paediatrician knows of one child under 16 who has been allowed the vaccine off licence, as they are in residential care. It is extremely rare for a consultant to go off licence in order to vaccinate a child.

I might be being very naive, but I’d certainly like to think that if a paediatrician believed a child was at serious risk from Covid, they’d find a way to get them vaccinated. I also know of a child who’s had it, so it’s possible in some circumstances.

However, the approval for 12-16 year olds should quicken the process for that age group, which is very positive.

It is fraught with difficulty unfortunately. I can certainly understand why trials on vulnerable children wouldn’t be contemplated until there was some certainty that vaccines work on the general population. It’s also the case that the benefits of these children being in school need to be balanced against the risks. It’s a very tough situation, but I don’t have any radically better ideas on how it should have been handled myself.

I am not a medically trained but u would have thought the role out for teenagers may well be similar to adults - those with the highest risk first.

It has been a week since it got approved. Yes the government may have had a wink and a nod before that but they have to have time to come up with a plan and put it into action. Should the stall the route which is already progressing well?

Yes children may be I'm situations which are illegal for adults but some of that is weighing up risks. Not an easy thing to do. Do you choose education or mental health or physical health? All are important. Yes for those of you with CEV children I understand the physical health risk is massive whereas for others the risk to education is higher.

I 110% get when it is your child you want it for them now but I can also understand tge population level view of deciding who to vaccine.

For children they need to sort consent forms. As an adult I can just turn up and give my own concent.

Those of you who think we are giving away vaccines. The ones we have pledged to donate will be given over the next year not all in one day.

I’d certainly like to think that if a paediatrician believed a child was at serious risk from Covid, they’d find a way to get them vaccinated

Ds was recommended to shield throughout, so definitely deemed to be at risk - but unable to be vaccinated. I know of children with far more complex medical needs and life limiting conditions who also have not been able to be vaccinated.

I'm not sure why I bother posting on here sometimes, because some posts like this make me feel like I must have just been having a moment of madness when I gave up my job and spent the year home schooling ds...it's bizarre!

In terms of speed of rollout... The FDA approved Pfizer here in the US for 12-15 year olds on May 10th. In my state, the various health systems had already been working on plans to set up vaccination clinics in schools. The clinics started the following week.

In my town, one month past the vaccine being approved, we have already given 40% of 12-15 year olds both Pfizer shots.

One of the people in my state who helps make a lot of these decisions is Dora Anne Mills. Formerly director of the state CDC, currently Chief Health Improvement Officer in the largest healthcare system in the state. She wrote a FB post on May 11th about how and why to roll out vaccines to this age group.

www.facebook.com/dora.a.mills/posts/10226077311818110

She is also sister of the governor of the state, which I'm sure has helped with the state's Covid decisions being science-led throughout.

CEV children over 12 could be vaccinated if their consultant approved it on an off-licence basis. It was very dependent on precisely what condition meant that the individual was CEV and their personal risk/benefit equation.

With the new licensing, I hope they do offer it to all CEV over age 12, and all over 12 in households where there is a CEV person, as the risk of a child bringing it home from school is the greatest concern.

I thought it has always been the case since vaccines were available that a CEV child's specialist could authorise the vaccine?