Advised not to have 2nd dose and not allowed an alternative :(

[Sel14]

I had my first AZ 14 weeks ago due to my BMI.

6 days post vaccine I experienced awful headaches, dizziness, numbness & tingling in my hands and feet and visual disturbances.

I was seen in A&E and given the all clear.

The symptoms did not pass and I was referred by my GP to a neurologist.

I’ve been seen today and now have to wait for an MRI & further tests.

I am still intermittently having these symptoms and some days they are debilitating.

I have been advised by both my GP and the neurologist not to have my second vaccine, but have been told I won’t be allowed to have one of the MRNA vaccines as an alternative as this is not approved.

I’ve seen that this can be authorised in exceptional circumstances, and have questioned my GP but have still been told no.

I’m finding this incredibly unfair. I have a 2 year old DC who is in nursery and as of last month I am back in the office at work, so feel that both of these situations put me at risk.

Most people I work with are now double vaccinated and are expressing their excitement of their “new freedoms” and sense of relief at being fully vaccinated and I’m stating to feel resentful.

The Dr has told me I may be eligible for a booster in the autumn if mixing of vaccines is approved, but what am I supposed to do in the mean time?

I really don’t think my employer is going to let me work from home since all staff are now back in the office.

I just want to get on with my life, but how I can I with this looming over me.

I’m feeling seriously depressed about it all.
I can’t face having to hide away from this virus any longer, but without having a second vaccine, what choice do I have 😔

Ccg is the clinical commissioning group, the area body for your gp surgery and healthcare services.

These side effects don’t depend on the type of vaccine, all vaccines can cause them. It’s not about a blood clot, it’s about an immune reaction that is too strong. So for the time being its better to stay away from any vaccine if you still have such persistent reactions, you don’t want to make them even worse by taking a second dose. See here the discussion on Reddit:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4263654-Tingle-toes-after-Pfizer

As for the Roche antibody test, here’s an immunologist who just used it after the first dose and found that he has vaccine antibodies (the bit about ”IgC positive” is obviously a joke). So yes you can try it:
twitter.com/andrew_croxford/status/1399017136220160003

Yes I’d also caution not to jump right back in for another vaccine, even if other brand.

Can you not talk to your GP or neuro? If they explain their reasons, you might be able to decide better whether you think there is a real risk.

And remember you do get some protection from even just one dose.

@CrunchyCarrot

antibody levels are currently the best proxy measure an individual can access to understand if they have some level of B-cell mediated immunity

Yes, quite right. I used Biocard as they do a specific test for the spike protein antibodies. They also give you a graded antibody level result if you do have antibodies (you can have spike antibodies from either an infection or from the vaccine).

T cell immunity is very important, but unfortunately testing for that isn't a simple matter, so Joe Public has only the antibody test to go on.

No - it's quite wrong.

The presence of antibodies doesn't mean a person has a level of immunity sufficent to prevent them from becoming seriously ill or dead.

The absence of antibodies doesn't mean a person doesn't have memory cells.

And if I had a penny for every comment re T-Cells written by someone who hadn't heard of them until they read a newspaper article a few months back, I'd be so wealthy lol.

B and T cells are different facets of the immune system and have very similar modes of operation.

When exposed to an infection, your body generates antibodies and memory B cells as well as effector T Cells and memory T cells. After the infection, the antibodies and the effector cells wane over time- what matters is how long the memory cells last as these quickly generate antibodies and effector cells when reexposed to the antigen.

AFAIK, there has never been a documented case where an individual has developed T cells without developing B cells. Yet, it's become a urban myth thanks to a misunderstanding of T cell research by various journos who were desperately searching for evidence to support the idea we'd reached herd-immunity last summer.

@puppeteer

Yes I’d also caution not to jump right back in for another vaccine, even if other brand.

Can you not talk to your GP or neuro? If they explain their reasons, you might be able to decide better whether you think there is a real risk.

And remember you do get some protection from even just one dose.

This is sensible advice. They did the MRI to work out what's wrong with you. If it's Meniere's disease then they might give you treatment and suggest you have the same or a different jab. If it's a reaction just to one vaccine then they'll suggest you get a different vaccine. If it's MS then advice is not to get a vaccine during a relapse, so you would get treatment and then be able to get a second jab. It would be wrong for them to just jab you randomly without having worked out what's wrong, because that might put your health at more risk. Even one jab gives you some protection, cases are still quite low so keep sensible about interactions and you should be fine to wait.

@MRex

Even one jab gives you some protection, cases are still quite low so keep sensible about interactions and you should be fine to wait.

Being office based and having a toddler at nursery limits how “sensible” my interactions can be.

I’m trying to be as sensible as I can be but I’m concerned a lot of my colleagues just aren’t even bothering to follow the rules anymore, which sucks for me because I feel they put me at risk.
But, they’re vaccinated so i guess they’re not going to consider me or my vulnerability.

Have you check iron or b12 levels?

@HSHorror

Have you check iron or b12 levels?

@HSHorror

Yes and I had repeat bloods today.

I had alternative vaccine when advised to not have the second AZ. I am awaiting second dose of Pfizer now.

@LemonRoses

I had alternative vaccine when advised to not have the second AZ. I am awaiting second dose of Pfizer now.

@LemonRoses

So you’ve had 1 AZ, 1 Pfizer and are waiting another dose of Pfizer?

Or do you mean you’ve had 1 AZ and waiting for a dose of Pfizer?

Are you in the UK? Do you mind me asking how you got it approved?

My GP has advised me not to have a second AZ and has told me to have Pfizer as my second jab. No problem to organise it and have it but I'm still poorly with the AZ reaction so I'm going to wait a while before I have the Pfizer

[quote Sel14]@MRex

Even one jab gives you some protection, cases are still quite low so keep sensible about interactions and you should be fine to wait.

Being office based and having a toddler at nursery limits how “sensible” my interactions can be.

I’m trying to be as sensible as I can be but I’m concerned a lot of my colleagues just aren’t even bothering to follow the rules anymore, which sucks for me because I feel they put me at risk.
But, they’re vaccinated so i guess they’re not going to consider me or my vulnerability.[/quote]
If your colleagues are vaccinated then they are less likely to get infected and less likely to infect you if they get infected, so that's good.

I had a bad reaction to the first AZ jab. I was told that once the symptoms stopped, I was told I could have a second dose of Pfizer instead as part of the trial...
Then I was told I couldn’t, as the trial was infested. Then I could again. Then I could have the second dose of AZ if I wanted, at a hospital, and they’d keep me in for a few hours afterwards to monitor side effects. They said it was my decision.

My symptoms stopped ages ago so I can now either have Pfizer, but the CCG has warned that the side effects of mixing vaccines are worse, or AZ again... but I’m pregnant now; which is complicating things.

It’s not true to say you can definitely have the second dose of something else if you’re still experiencing side effects. My CCG won’t authorise another dose in that case, as there’s nothing to say that Pfizer wouldn’t cause the same or worst side effects, so it’s riskier.

You’ll probably get to make the choice when your symptoms have totally stopped, but they’ll warn you that it’s at your own risk, given your reaction.

Sel14

Yes, I mean I had one AZ then my GP rang and told me not to have second dose. They said they’d book me in for a full course of Pfizer and I got a call from the vaccination centre for my practice about an hour later.

The person giving the vaccination was a bit of a pain and a retired orthopaedic surgeon who was over
Y nosy, but the centre supervisor said GP had approved, so I got it.

I didn’t react badly to the AZ, as happens. It was about increased clotting risk.

[quote Sel14]@myrtleWilson

What is a CCG?

Okay I will give 119 a call. But my GP was pretty adamant that I wasn’t able to have an alternative second dose.[/quote]
Myrtlewilson is correct. But it’s important to note that your GP cannot approve any course of action. They can only refer you on to specialists. They will decide what to recommend. Which can a different vaccine or supervised administration of the same vaccine.

“But, they’re vaccinated so i guess they’re not going to consider me or my vulnerability.”

Yes, you may be right. And I confess that would be me.

But you can perhaps do things yourself to cut down the risk still.

Wearing a mask does have some effect towards the wearer, and perhaps more usefully it’s a highly visible signal to others.

You could ask to sit near a well open window. Or near an external vent (if they have air con of the externally vented kind).

And if hours can be staggered, look for times or days where there are fewer — or less talkative ;-) — people in the office.

And if the office is socially distanced (which is still all offices, isn’t it?.. lost track of the rules…), you can look for desks where fewer people are around you. Even if all desks are nominally similarly safe, there’s usually a few that are further just because of the layout.

I appreciate that puts a lot on you, rather than perhaps politely apologising for my or others’ behaviour. But I think it’s probably better to be blunt and realistic than suggest to rely on others behaviour that probably won’t happen in practice.

@LemonRoses

Sel14 Yes, I mean I had one AZ then my GP rang and told me not to have second dose. They said they’d book me in for a full course of Pfizer and I got a call from the vaccination centre for my practice about an hour later. The person giving the vaccination was a bit of a pain and a retired orthopaedic surgeon who was over Y nosy, but the centre supervisor said GP had approved, so I got it.

@LemonRoses

Ah that’s interesting.

How long after your AZ dose did they allow you to have Pfizer?

I’m not sure these symptoms are specific to Az vaccine though. I know of people who have had vertigo and other neurological symptoms after the mRNA vaccines too in the post vaccine tinnitus group I am in. These symptoms can also occur with covid and thinking is it’s likely due to the spike protein. Of course they might not get worse after a booster but it’s a hard choice to make.

It was about 9 weeks.

If you are otherwise well it is quite possible that the GP feels the risk of a similar reaction to your second dose are worse than your personal risk from catching Covid.

I work at a GP surgery. We have a few patients who for various reasons can't have the vaccine they had first time round again. We are waiting for official guidelines to allow us to give the alternative.

@Sel14

Really hoping someone can give me some advice or tell me something similar has happened to them.

Your first vaccine has made you ill? And you want more? Please tell me I’ve misunderstood your post?

@shewalkslikerihanna

I want protection from Covid!

Hi, my GP has said the same thing - that as things stand I would not be eligible for a different vaccine. However, despite my having persistent/recurrent headaches, nausea and fatigue since my AZ shot, she still wants me to get the second!!

My current thinking is that I won't be getting another vaccine for the time being (as it clearly doesn't suit me), but I'm optimistic that there will be more information available in the future about why some of us react badly to them. I also think that there will be future opportunities to be revaccinated.

I've been very upset about the whole thing because I also feel 'at risk' (asthma and history of previous pneumonia) and I work in a customer facing role and I'm a bit older than you so that's a worry too, but I think I am more worried about a future with chronic headache/migraine now, than I am about becoming ill with Covid. For now, I'm concentrating on getting well and being sensible and just trying to accept the situation. I'm about 6 weeks post vaccine now and I think I am starting to improve. I've only had one really severe headache, but it did scare me.

Like PP said, the more people who are vaccinated in your workplace, the better. That will help protect you!

@Sel14 - I get it! Whole thing feels very Catch-22.