Vaccine skeptics - any links to help show advantage please?

[buckeejit]

Db & sil haven't taken up the vaccine as they are skeptical. I believe sil' aunt is a nurse who is skeptic & perhaps this is some influence.

It's their choice & while I don't like it, I'll try not to preach about it, (strangely he is actually a preacher & when restrictions allow, am sure he'll be in lots of, particularly, older peoples houses). Anyway, sadly our mum has just been diagnosed with a brain tumor. Parents & rest of siblings are fully vaccinated. We're waiting for a treatment plan but I'm concerned of them posing a risk to dm. Ddad brought it up today in a jokey way - if they should be socialising with unvaccinated, but perhaps there was a serious undercurrent. Not sure. Parents are only allowing family in to the home & not really going out yet so otherwise minimal risk of any infection.

Then we were politely discussing them choosing to not vaccinate, db maybe got defensive & said to mum 'you don't know what the media are putting out there.....maybe it's the vaccine that gave you the tumor' 😒. Not in a mean way but I was still agog!

I don't know why they aren't being their logical selves about this, maybe there's something biblical in it. I asked them to keep an open mind & consider taking the vaccine- it's been through all standard tests etc & regaled them with a couple of Covid horror stories to no avail.

Any advice, even stfu, appreciated, just please try to be a bit gentle.

There’s nothing ‘biblical’ in it, they’re just mad.
It’s their business whether they get the jab or not. Don’t involve yourself in that.
However, what was said to your mum is disgusting! I’d have been furious

You have no chance I'm sorry.

The more evidence you present to them, the more entrenched their beliefs will become - this has been scientifically demonstrated.

There is a serious undercurrent as they are far more likely to pass on an infection to your mother, who if is put on any treatment, chemo or radio, that affects her immune system, will be extremely vulnerable regardless of her own vaccination status.

You can mitigate this to a degree with tests, but LF tests only pick up about 40% of detectable cases. Whether or not they pick up a much higher proportion of infectious cases is unknown - that's something that the recent mass event trials were about, the theory being that even if someone is infected, if they're not yet infectious, it doesn't matter. And if they're shedding enough to be infectious, then you'd expect there to be sufficient virus in their swabs..... but like I said, that's currently not known.

Other than that I don't know what to say. My sister can sometimes latch onto conspiracy theories and I was very worried that she would end up on the wrong side of this issue. But she was actually very worried about the virus and gladly took the vaccine, so I never faced your problem thankfully.

Personally I'd avoid confrontation, but do whatever I could to protect my mother and if that meant insisting they either got vaccinated, or took tests before every visit.....

But at the end of the day, your mother's input is the one that matters - if she's told of the risk, and is comfortable with it, then you can't really do much about it no matter how much it must worry you.

Thank you for the replies - @strangeshapedpotato that info in test reliability is great to pass on. Yes, I'll support her whatever she decides with my dad. They're always a united front & think db & sil would be understanding if they couldn't come in. Not easy though either way.

@buckeejit

Thank you for the replies - *@strangeshapedpotato* that info in test reliability is great to pass on. Yes, I'll support her whatever she decides with my dad. They're always a united front & think db & sil would be understanding if they couldn't come in. Not easy though either way.

An article reinforcing the point about LF tests being good at picking up 83%-90% of infectious cases, which if true would make them as effective as vaccination at preventing someone from passing on the virus. www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-01-21-lateral-flow-devices-detect-most-infectious-covid-19-cases-and-could-allow-safer

However, I should point out that this is to some extent based on models and the general advice is that LF tests should still not be used as green light tests. i.e. A -ve result should not be taken as evidence someone is virus free.

But they are a lot better than nothing.

I think, everyone needs to be left to their opinions! Advocating some to take the jab which has not even completed the trials is insane!! Especially, given how many side effects incl. deaths have been reported on the yellow card ( available to anyone, google it). Anyone under 60 is perfectly capable of fighting the virus off. So stop this scaremongering. Parents who will allow their kids to be jabed with Pfizer 'vaccine' are totally irresponsible and god help their kids in the future....

If they're going to claim a religious reason. They will mention that in some of the vaccines use aborted baby calls.

Yes, in some vaccines a kidney cell which comes from a line of a cell that came from a baby that died of spontaneous miscarriage or induced miscarriage.
This happened in something like 1968 and no further abortions were carried out in order to have vaccinations made. They've made lines upon lines of cells from the abortion or miscarriage. One in the 1960s , 1 in the 70s.

They might make vaccination compulsory for those working from line and those with the most vulnerable.

Your brother should not be allowed near the vulnerable as he is unvaccinted.

Your SIL aunt might need a new job at some point.

@pixie09

I think, everyone needs to be left to their opinions! Advocating some to take the jab which has not even completed the trials is insane!! Especially, given how many side effects incl. deaths have been reported on the yellow card ( available to anyone, google it). Anyone under 60 is perfectly capable of fighting the virus off. So stop this scaremongering. Parents who will allow their kids to be jabed with Pfizer 'vaccine' are totally irresponsible and god help their kids in the future....

Ps it's not scare mongering to refuse access to a non vaccinated HP / chaplain with an immune compromised patient. The patients rights count first.

Seems like Covid has made the general population unable to think straight surely if you were going to visit a relative who may be going to go through treatment that will compromise their immunity you would carry out all precautions as in masks,gloves etc regardless of having the vaccine or not, covid isn't the only illness out there,the common cold or a stomach bug can be just as dangerous, I would have thought a visit from her son would lift her spirits apart from his silly remark, but maybe he's just the kind of person that says stupid things

@pixie09 Pfizer 'vaccine'

Why the quotation marks? Regardless of your beliefs the Pfizer vaccine is actually a vaccine

@buckeejit honestly I wouldn’t attempt to debate it. You believe what you believe and they believe what they do. Beliefs have a tricky psychology and people look to confirm them not change them.

I think I would be trying to make the subject off-limits amongst yourselves. It’s your DM’s decision to make about who she sees and she at least has a layer of protection due to her own vaccination status. I would pull up your DB for making unnecessarily hurtful comments and potentially distressing your DM at an already stressful time. I think you can all just keep it to yourselves at the moment in truth.

The best approach would be for your Mum to ask the opinion of her oncologist. They are the experts on the treatments given and will be able to advise on what level of precautions are needed.

Thanks all, will definitely get dad to ask the oncologist about it & then it takes it out of our hands.

@Torvean I hadn't realised that there was any truth in the aborted foetus matter. There is a local cult type of church that was pushing that narrative, (db & sil not involved with it), but good to know.

I'll avoid vaccine discussion with them going forward & cross my fingers that they come round.

@Cornettoninja Because the vaccine has a few core principles. As a minimum it stops YOU getting the infection; it stops SPREAD of the infection. So far none of these so called 'vaccines' meet these core requirements, hence they are not vaccines and should not be called so. In case with Pfizer and Moderna - experimental gene therapies.

If you had a vaccine, why are you still required to wear a mask, isolate etc. Because they know they don't work!!! Simples