The gap between vaccine doses

[Butterflyinglow]

What do you think are the chances that they’ll start to close the gap between doses for the younger cohorts, now that the vulnerable groups are mostly double vaxxed?

Seems like it would make sense, particularly with the pressure that’s now building - trying to outrun this Indian variant whilst still being determined to open up on June 21st. Having both doses now seems more important than ever. Couldn’t they move the window back to 3 weeks again soon?

Or are there logistical reasons why they couldn’t?

I'm all in favour of the gap being shorter so that people are as fully protected as possible months sooner.

The government should never have taken second doses from the most vulnerable and given them to the less vulnerable in the first place.

However, they are still doing second doses for JCVI priority groups 7, 8, and 9 and people in their 40s until at least the end of July.

Our cousin in his 30s is booked for next week and August.

And any spare in the system is going to surge vaccination over 18s in hotspots.

So without increased supply I'm not sure they can do that.

Especially as the most vulnerable who had their first jab last December, January and February are skated to get a booster in the early autumn.

@PrincessNutNuts Many of the people awaiting second jabs are having AZ though, while your cousin and other under-40s will have Pfizer and Moderna. Also, people awaiting their second jabs will have had their first while higher priority people were waiting for their seconds. Where do you draw the cut off?

I would like to have mine with a shorter gap. As it is I am booked in with a 12 week gap and there seemingly haven’t been any plans to change this despite us being in one of the areas of concern where they are door knocking to get people tested.

They don't have enough vaccine supply at the moment, as they would need Pfizer/Moderna. The older age groups having their 2nd doses earlier mostly had AZ. I guess that may change depending on take up in the 18-39 age groups in the coming weeks - especially in areas with a younger population like London, it would make sense to bring 2nd doses forward if they don't have enough people coming forward for new 1st doses at any point.

Although research seems to show the longer gap will actually make the vaccine more effective in the long term so it's not a problem to wait from that perspective.

I thought the 12 gap between AZ jabs increased the effacey compared with a 6 week gap?

When I went online to book my second dose I was offered appointments from 9 weeks onwards. I had it at 10 weeks. I’m not in any priority group.

The 12 week gap worked really well to crush are last dominant variant. As even one dose was enough to have brilliant results against that variant. It saved many lifes.

Are new variant of concern needs both doses to help cut infection. So seconds have got faster with a shorter gap.

The priority list second doses are aimed to be done by 21st June. So after that we probably need to still push for a couple of weeks on the 40s second doses.

The joy from then onwards is most people will be Pfizer or Moderna. So the short gap can happen without it being a logistics problem with supply. I think they will start shortening the gap second week in July. Everyone that wants a first dose over 18 will be done by then easily.

*By shorten I mean to 3/4 weeks

Revisiting this thread in the light of how things are looking now. All I’m hearing and reading in the press and from the scientists is how urgently the second doses are needed to stop another wave. Wouldn’t it make sense to put everyone receiving Pfizer/Moderna (ie under 40s) back on the original 3 week gap now?

I can’t see what the logistical problems with that are, unless Pfizer is now in short supply?

They've been using Pfizer-BioNTech for most of the over 18 surge vaxxing so any spare in the system is now used up.

There's not enough to expand surge vaxxing, AND give second doses, AND give it as routine first doses.

As more Moderna is given out as first fuses more if that needs to be held back for August and September second doses.

So the short answer is I don't think they have the supply to surge vaccinate in hotspots, bring second doses forwards and also continue to jab first doses at the current rate.

Tons of AZ sloshing about though. But nobody wants it. They put PFIZER or MODERNA on the surge vaxxing posters to guarantee good turn out.

Watching with interest as I had my first at the end of April and have just been invited to book my second.

When I click the booking link it tells me “Your second vaccine should be approximately 12 weeks after your first” but only offers me dates for this week, so just under 7 weeks after the first.

This is what I get when I google optimum vaccine interval…

The study found vaccine efficacy reached 82.4% after a second dose in those with a dosing interval of 12 weeks or more (95% confidence interval 62.7% to 91.7%). If the two doses were given less than six weeks apart the efficacy was only 54.9% (CI 32.7% to 69.7%)

I’m presuming a slow increase from 54.9% to 82.4% between weeks 6 and 12?

It’s so tempting to get mine out of the way now, but img instinct at the moment is to hold out to 12 weeks.

I’m interested to read other people’s takes on the situation.

*should have clarified that I had/am having AZ

Unless you live in a hotspot I would not bring forward second dose of AZ. It's been proven to be more effective long term with a 12 week gap. Even if I did live in a hotspot I'd probably hold off, but I'm early 40's and healthy

@TheSockMonster I am trying to wait for my second dose. It will be in 3 weeks' time (AZ). Very tempted to bring it forward and I think that would probably be possible on the national booking site, but while cases remain relatively low locally I think it's probably better to wait if possible. Just in case this makes it more effective.

[quote PlantDoctor]@PrincessNutNuts Many of the people awaiting second jabs are having AZ though, while your cousin and other under-40s will have Pfizer and Moderna. Also, people awaiting their second jabs will have had their first while higher priority people were waiting for their seconds. Where do you draw the cut off?[/quote]
Plenty of group 5,6,7,8 and 9 have needed hospital treatment and are still being hospitalised and dying - and we're keeping some of them waiting for second jabs and vaccinating 18 year olds.

Other countries have done it completely differently to us. Some vaccinated the younger ages groups first because infections tend to spread their first. (Turkey)

Some vaccinated the keen first, America seems to be a bit of a free for all.

Some have concentrated on getting people fully vaccinated ASAP. (Israel)

I suppose only time will tell which was most successful.

In January and February it felt wrong that our most vulnerable were kept waiting months for full protection while we jabbed other people.

Plenty of group 5,6,7,8 and 9 have needed hospital treatment and are still being hospitalised and dying - and we're keeping some of them waiting for second jabs and vaccinating 18 year olds.
This simply isn't true, I'm in group 6 and was contacted to get my second dose sooner, but moved it online using NHS booking site for my convenience and to get a 10 week gap. It's been advertised extensively that people should get the second dose sooner.

If we had not vaccinated using the priority list as we did and using the 12 week gap then a lot more people would be dead now. One dose was enough to see of the two previous dominant variants.

It is only now we have the rise of the delta variant we need to speed up seconds because you need both now. This speeding up is actually quicker because we have lots of people who already have their first with a decent gap.

@takemetocedarpoint cases are low in our area too, so does seem to make sense to wait.

I saw this graph on a news site today and thought it was interesting. Firstly, in terms of the relatively high antibody levels in young, unvaccinated groups. Secondly due to the decreasing gap between vaccination and antibodies detected in the younger age groups compared to older ones. I’m guessing that points to either a faster immune response in younger people, or a higher likelihood of catching Covid and getting antibodies that way. Or both most likely!

@MRex

Plenty of group 5,6,7,8 and 9 have needed hospital treatment and are still being hospitalised and dying - and we're keeping some of them waiting for second jabs and vaccinating 18 year olds. This simply isn't true, I'm in group 6 and was contacted to get my second dose sooner, but moved it online using NHS booking site for my convenience and to get a 10 week gap. It's been advertised extensively that people should get the second dose sooner.

I was able to move my uncle's forward from 11 weeks to 10.

But almost 6 million people are still waiting for their second doses on the "by 12 weeks" schedule.

It's not always possible to change when you try. Some of my relatives are trying daily.

I think if you had AZ you're more likely to be in luck.

Of course, delaying second doses back in January and February was the right decision. The UK death numbers plummeted faster than it was projected by any of the models.

It might have felt "unfair" at the individual level (of course, everyone wanted to get vaccinated faster) but this move saved lives at the population level.

@PrincessNutNuts - many people who aren't in hot spot areas are choosing to wait 12 weeks for better immunity. If you forced everyone to have an earlier vaccine then that's 6m fewer first doses, so nobody in their 30s to have been vaccinated yet. Even those working in shops, schools, as police officers etc. That's a pretty bad trade-off for those people.

There seem to be different approaches to this. I was called back for my second dose and it would have been 8 weeks (actually 7 weeks and 6 days). But I can't go (today) now because of a stomach bug - grrr.

Another local centre said I can go to them anytime if I am over 50 and it's 8 weeks since my last dose but as I am under 50 I have to wait for 10 weeks.

Plenty of group 5,6,7,8 and 9 have needed hospital treatment and are still being hospitalised and dying - and we're keeping some of them waiting for second jabs and vaccinating 18 year olds

That isn't true - those groups will have had both vaccines by now - there may be the youngest healthy over 50s in group 9 still waiting but probably booked in. My DH had his second one last Sunday.

@Notstrongandstable

Unless you live in a hotspot I would not bring forward second dose of AZ. It's been proven to be more effective long term with a 12 week gap. Even if I did live in a hotspot I'd probably hold off, but I'm early 40's and healthy

Interesting point. I mentioned on another thread that I was due to have my second one today at 8 weeks but am recovering from a stomach bug so didn't go. I know there's no clinic next week so it will be 10 weeks before I can have mine now so maybe that's the compromise.

Edinburgh now doing drop in clinics for over 40s for AZ for 1st and 2nd vaccine and you can go for your 2nd from 8 weeks.

I had a call from surgery today for DD (23) and they let me book on her behalf. DS had his 5 weeks ago and can already book online, but thought it might be better to wait a bit. I asked receptionist what gap they were doing and she said 7 weeks. They are trying to get as many in as possible before next relaxations.