Colleague who does not want to get vaccinated

[JennieLee]

I've recently returned to work in a venue that has been closed because of Covid.

Was chatting with various colleagues about whether they'd had first and/or second jabs and one person who is of mature years - and rather anxious - said they weren't having vaccinations, though they 'weren't an anti-vaxxer.'

One of my other colleagues says this is because they have a condition which affects their immune system. I was already aware of this condition but on looking it up, the official medical body says there is no reason why people with this condition should be adversely affected by the vaccine. The official advice is to have it.

It seems to me that by working in proximity with her over prolonged periods I am at increased risk of carrying the vaccine and infecting others. (I've had both jabs.)

Is there anything I can do, I wonder...?

Her body, her choice. You just do you.

In other news, will people stop saying that the vaccines are untested FFS.

This is an extremely valid question @JennieLee. Someone who is possibly infectious shouldn't be working directly with the public unless almost everyone else in the office has had full vaccinations.

You do realise that the science says that even people who have had the vaccine are possibly infectious, so according to you nobody should work with anyone, ever again?

OP I think you've not been following updated guidance, and it sounds like you're overly anxious.

You are vaccinated. Initially, they thought people who were vaccinated could still carry and transmit the virus. Now they don't. So you're misinformed on that point.

You are not at all likely to transmit the virus to others, even if you are protected.

You are not likely to be affected by it - you're vaccinated.

The whole point about aiming for a certain level of herd immunity is to protect people like your colleague, who may not be able to have it for health reasons. And people who will choose not to have it - there has always been a proportion of those.

This is why people are so worried about anti-vax parents and things like measles. BUT - the vaccine roll-out is going well. If you are exposed to the public like you say, it is MUCH more likely you will be exposed to a large number of people who are unvaccinated - including everyone under the age of what, 35? - and people carrying the virus.

I have lived an incredibly restricted world for over a year. I have followed all guidelines, I have worked from home, and I have still been exposed through an unavoidable route, while counting down the days to be eligible for the vaccine. It is what it is. Draconian laws are unlikely to change it.

It really doesn't sound like you're worried about her, or that you can be genuinely worried about yourself. It sound like you think she's 'got away' with something and should be punished. And that's not how it works.

Sorry but to everyone using the incredibly lazy answer of 'mind your own business ' seems to have massively missed the entire point of PUBLIC health.

I have no problem with people being asked to justify their decisions not to play their part in helping the whole community recover from this awful disease.

Tippy-toeing around the issue , and 'understanding' whatever nonsense bollox that someone has read on SM is not going to help anyone.
It's time to challenge people's reasoning .
This sounds like a perfect example where this should be done. The advisory body that supports her particular condition does not advise against it .. yet some fucking woo somewhere has persuaded her that not having it is safer . Yes it absolutely IS your business as a member of the human race - to challenge this and play your part in getting the whole world vaccinated.

Her reasons are her own and she’s entitled not to tell you (or anyone else) her full medical history so you can judge if it is within advice. If you have vaccine then you have taken the precautions within your gift. She is no more putting you at risk than you and everyone else puts pedestrians at risk when they get in a car. If the prevalence is low then the likelihood of either of you being a carrier is low which is the objective. I understand your concern and fear but I think you are crossing a boundary. In terms of other measures - it is likely that the benefit would be minimal especially in comparison to the effect and opens companies up to risk of persecution.

OP, how do you feel about working with/being around young people who haven’t been offered the vaccine? If you’re not bothered by it then I agree with the PP who said it seems more like you think she ‘got away’ with something and needs to be punished.

It’s strange how many people who are pushing the vaccine on others seem to have so little faith in its ability to protect them.

I was already aware of this condition but on looking it up, the official medical body says there is no reason why people with this condition should be adversely affected by the vaccine.

You looked up her medical condition. And now think you can judge her decision. 😮

I love how all the responses on these threads always come up with convoluted reasons why people might be justified in not getting the jab. Realistically 99% of people refusing vaccines are not being medically advised to not have it, they are just choosing not to have it for vague, unproven concerns about their own well-being. So completely fair to raise your eyebrow at this person - but as a country we go for the “all vaccines are optional” approach so you may as well move on, this has been an issue for years.

Is there anything I can do, I wonder...?

Yes you can mind your own fucking business. Your colleagues medical history is nothing to do with you. If you started badgering me at work about the vaccine I'd report you for harassment and bullying.

People are getting far too ahead of themselves in the disguise of "the greater good"

Looking up people's disabilities/health problems, deciding if it is a worthy enough excuse. Ridiculous. Who can be arsed with all that. I wont refuse the vaccine when it comes to my age group but cant imagine putting that much thought in to what others are doing.

until it becomes mandatory it doesnt matter whether you think its justified or not. all the while people have a choice they have the right to decide.

With respect, your colleague doesn't have to justify their decision to you. Your other colleague may be wrong- it may be nothing to do with whatever condition they say they have. They may have other conditions, or other reasons.
They are an adult and I assume have weighed up the risks to themselves.
Of course there is nothing you can do!

Please leave her alone and stop judging her. My relative with an immune disease, has been advised not to have the vaccination. She decided to, in the end. Everyone can pass on the virus whether they're vaccinated or not. You look after yourself by being vaccinated. No need to worry about other peoples choices.

@Frustratedbeyondbelief

Sorry but to everyone using the incredibly lazy answer of 'mind your own business ' seems to have massively missed the entire point of PUBLIC health.

I have no problem with people being asked to justify their decisions not to play their part in helping the whole community recover from this awful disease.

Tippy-toeing around the issue , and 'understanding' whatever nonsense bollox that someone has read on SM is not going to help anyone.
It's time to challenge people's reasoning .
This sounds like a perfect example where this should be done. The advisory body that supports her particular condition does not advise against it .. yet some fucking woo somewhere has persuaded her that not having it is safer . Yes it absolutely IS your business as a member of the human race - to challenge this and play your part in getting the whole world vaccinated.

Not it is not the "perfect example" If I am reading the OP right: Colleague A says she is not having the vaccine, it doesn't sound like colleague A shared the reasons why. Colleague B told OP that colleague A has "a condition which affects their immune system". This may or mayn't be the reason why colleague A is not taking the vaccine, but in any case IMO isn't colleague B's information to share.

OP does not know for a fact that this is the reason why colleague A is refusing, but has jumped to conclusions that colleague A is being unreasonable not to take it.

@notalwaysalondoner

I love how all the responses on these threads always come up with convoluted reasons why people might be justified in not getting the jab. Realistically 99% of people refusing vaccines are not being medically advised to not have it, they are just choosing not to have it for vague, unproven concerns about their own well-being. So completely fair to raise your eyebrow at this person - but as a country we go for the “all vaccines are optional” approach so you may as well move on, this has been an issue for years.

Anyone I know who isn’t getting it, myself included, just doesn’t feel that they need/want it. No vague concerns about the vaccine required. :) It’s doing a great job in preventing serious illness and death in the people who were most likely to end up in hospital so the NHS isn’t under strain (from covid related illnesses at least) anymore.

Considering the huge reduction in hospital numbers and deaths even though the majority of people in the younger age groups haven’t been vaccinated, I’m not really sure why people keep insisting that it’s necessary to vaccinate everyone in order for it to work. Clearly it’s not.

@JingsMahBucket

Someone who is possibly infectious?
Really.?

How about someone who probably isn’t?
What about the public?
They are going to be working near a lot of unvaccinated members of the public too

Should the unvaxxed be forced to stay indoors.
Be careful.
You are treading on dangerous territory there.

I don’t give a monkeys who is vaxed or not. It’s up to the owner of the body to decide what they want to do to it.
It’s called freedom of choice.

Once we take away a persons freedom of choice we are on a slippery slide to whatever evil fate awaits us.

It’s a personal choice keep out of it. You can’t force someone to have a vaccine and I’m sick of seeing these threads. A quick google does not tell you absolutely everything you need to know about someone’s condition. Have your vaccine and mind your own business.

@Frustratedbeyondbelief

Sorry but to everyone using the incredibly lazy answer of 'mind your own business ' seems to have massively missed the entire point of PUBLIC health.

I have no problem with people being asked to justify their decisions not to play their part in helping the whole community recover from this awful disease.

Tippy-toeing around the issue , and 'understanding' whatever nonsense bollox that someone has read on SM is not going to help anyone.
It's time to challenge people's reasoning .
This sounds like a perfect example where this should be done. The advisory body that supports her particular condition does not advise against it .. yet some fucking woo somewhere has persuaded her that not having it is safer . Yes it absolutely IS your business as a member of the human race - to challenge this and play your part in getting the whole world vaccinated.

and play your part in getting the whole world vaccinated

Dream on ...

Surely she’s the person who should be more concerned about the virus, not you? You and your vaccinated colleagues will be fine, she, on the other hand, may come into contact with another unvaccinated person in her public-facing role and catch the virus. Or vice versa.

She’s decided to take that risk so let her get on with it. It’s nothing to do with you.

@delilahbucket

Her body, her choice. You just do you.

In other news, will people stop saying that the vaccines are untested FFS.

I didn’t see that they were untested Yes they’ve been tested. I’ve also read that in early tests on one of the vaxes all the animals died. I don’t set too huge a store on that. Animals. Humans. We are all different. However the manufacturers themselves say it is in the experimental stage until March 2023

That to me says they are still collating data on the effects of the vaccine.

In other words it is still being tested on the global population and will be until 2023

"t’s personal medical information you should not be discussing in the workplace."

People are allowed to discuss their own medical information in the workplace or elsewhere.
If I want to tell my colleagues about an illness I had a few weeks ago/my vaccine, I have a right to do so.

@JennieLee

Weirdly enough since Covid swept through my father in law's care home killing a high proportion of the residents and the manager's partner, I have felt a certain amount of concern about this condition. As if, our choices do actually have significant impact on one another.

But not in the deeply selfish world of Mumsnet trolls it appears. I pity some of you. And I fear for you.

This is a disgusting thread. The attitude of a few on here is absolutely vile. For the many faults of the government during this pandemic, I’m glad we haven’t become somewhere that forces medical procedures on someone against their will.

OP, you have been vaccinated. The risk to you is minimal. There are vulnerable members of the community who cannot be vaccinated or have chosen not to be vaccinated, your colleague is one. These vulnerable members of the community that cannot or have chosen not to be vaccinated will have done their risk assessment for their health. Probably in conjunction with their doctors. Therefore, the vulnerable members of the community that haven’t been vaccinated will also be making their risk assessments about what they access and don’t. There is a small risk that she passes it to a vulnerable customer but there is also a small risk that someone passes it to her.

The vast majority of people have known someone who was seriously ill or sadly died as a result of covid. Most of us know a few home that Covid has ripped its way through. Many other people will be aware of people who have died as the secondary effects of Covid. Most people get that everything is linked and that what we do impacts someone else. What most of us also get is that you cannot force a medical procedure on someone and that someone else’s medical history is of no concern for anyone else. That you’ve been tested for the condition is of no relevance. You don’t actually have it and you have no idea of how that condition manifests in your colleague or what her doctors have advised.

I hope you do raise it with management and then management have a record of your bullying tactics and act accordingly.

@Berline

Flip it.

'How do I work safely alongside someone who's had a rushed out vaccine that the manufacturers have indemnity for thus proving they aren't confident in the product?'

I don't give a monkey's proverbial if you've had the vaccine, OP. But you are not neccessarily the sensible one here.

Stupid because vaccine side effects aren't contagious.

[quote SakuraEdenSwan1]@MichelleScarn I saw your name in The Daily Mail on Tuesday regarding another MN thread!!![/quote]
Oh bloody hell! Do l even want to look!

Please tell me this thread is a reverse?!

Surely no one actually goes about googling their colleagues' medical conditions to attempt to make their medical decisions for them?