Secondary School - First maskless day!

[palacegirl77]

Daughter not long since home from her face day without a face mask. She said it was so strange - she felt like she was missing something all day and that she found it hard to put up her hand and answer questions as she felt weird that people could see her face. Im pleased her school have gone with guidance, the lack of confidence to communicate is concerning. She said none of the teachers wore them at any point (but Im assuming thats their choice, not guidance as the school said if anyone wanted to wear them they could). Going to be another change for them to deal with but lets hope its a change for the better.

And yes, it's correct that close contact includes periods of only 1 minute if distance is less than 1m. So the number of close contacts in a day must be really very high.

When we have had cases, the whole class + any other contacts in the year group have isolated. Trying to pretend that ANYONE within the class isn't a close contact is unsustainable.

[quote noblegiraffe]DfE attendance stats. It varies week by week. This week in November it was 27 close contacts per secondary kids. explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/find-statistics/attendance-in-education-and-early-years-settings-during-the-coronavirus-covid-19-outbreak/2020-week-47[/quote]
Ok. Well first of all it was 22 2 weeks before (which suggest a change in how close contacts are defined) - also this was Nov last year when cases were far greater than currently. (You're quite selective with what you choose to quote!). So 12 Nov there were average 22 close contacts and 39,000 new cases a day (ONS). We are now averaging around 2k cases a day. It's not comparable to now. If you have a recent figure id be happy to look at it.

School next to ours had several positives and a year group isolating last week, so much as I hate them I think the heads decision to keep them until half term is sensible. DD's head has decided the same and dd is pleased, the kids aren't vaccinated and the disease is still around, some evidence that it's affecting more young people. We aren't in a hotspot, but even here with cases low infections can rise quickly and no one wants to go back to home learning.

@cantkeepawayforever

When we have had cases, the whole class + any other contacts in the year group have isolated. Trying to pretend that ANYONE within the class isn't a close contact is unsustainable.

Maybe speak to my daughter's school - she's just finished 10 days isolating, the class had kids left in - the day of contact they had 3 lessons together and 2 apart, so some of the children weren't counted as we're sat more than 2m away. So it's not true to say a full secondary class closes for 1 case.

@wonderstuff

School next to ours had several positives and a year group isolating last week, so much as I hate them I think the heads decision to keep them until half term is sensible. DD's head has decided the same and dd is pleased, the kids aren't vaccinated and the disease is still around, some evidence that it's affecting more young people. We aren't in a hotspot, but even here with cases low infections can rise quickly and no one wants to go back to home learning.

Several positive cases and a year group out - so the masks they wore last week didn't stop it spreading?

^Well first of all it was 22 2 weeks before (which suggest a change in how close contacts are defined)

Nope.

also this was Nov last year when cases were far greater than currently

I picked a random week. Why don’t you go and try to find a random week where close contacts of secondary pupils numbers 6, to make it ‘just like the pub’?

I teach a secondary school am delighted we have dispensed with masks. I saw only one kid today wearing one and that was child whose paranoid parent made the child wear one last year when not required. Teachers wearing them in (as mandated) corridors but nowhere else.

Several positive cases and a year group out - so the masks they wore last week didn't stop it spreading?

What leads you to this conclusion? A year group out doesn't mean they will all be infected.

@noblegiraffe

^Well first of all it was 22 2 weeks before (which suggest a change in how close contacts are defined)

Nope.

also this was Nov last year when cases were far greater than currently

I picked a random week. Why don’t you go and try to find a random week where close contacts of secondary pupils numbers 6, to make it ‘just like the pub’?

Do you want to have another read? Close contacts were 22 the week before. That's the info you showed me! I'm not suggesting close contacts will be 6 or the same as a pub. However a pub or restaurant with 30 customers would be the same no? Also an "average contacts" would be misleading as for example in a primary it would be the whole class (as it's assumed they can't or won't distant) and it would depend on the schools, class sizes etc. Ergo it's not the best evidence I've seen to talk about contacts - what I'd like to see is how many of those contacts went on to get it? Because in our school for every positive case (which has been about 7 since sept) there has never been a subsequent case in school. Maybe there is something in the scientific data that the younger you get the less you transmit?

@mrshoho

Several positive cases and a year group out - so the masks they wore last week didn't stop it spreading?

What leads you to this conclusion? A year group out doesn't mean they will all be infected.

Of course they won't - but you said several positive cases as if they were connected?

@TeddingtonTrashbag 🤣 @ your labelling of the paranoid parent.
You and the OP are so out of your depths. This variant is going to rip through the whole country and you are poking fun of the parent who is trying to be careful with the health? Maybe they are or in a bubble of a vulnerable person or don’t fancy getting long covid or fancy being irresponsible of being a carrier and potentially passing it on.

The country is on the brink of another big infection and you are b@@@ about masks as if they are the biggest evil in this world.
People need to lighten up and grow up.
I hate masks but there are worse things out there.

Palace actually mixing does cause transmission as much as close contacts in certain environments.

That's why ours etc have plastic screens and supermarkets.

Noble had a fantastic colourful visual that showed how transmission occurred in a room dependent on ventilation and activity.

Just because it's decided a close contact is 2m for 15 minutes doesn't automatically eliminate risk for all those outside of that.

And fwiw it seems this thread is pretty pro masks in corridors for now as we open up and are navigating the effects of this Indian variant.

I'm not particularly pro them - I'm pro schools making sensible decisions based on risk to keep their staff and pupil populations safe.

Close contacts were 22 the week before

Indeed. It varied week by week but there wasn't because of a change in how close contacts were identified as you suggested.

Also an "average contacts" would be misleading as for example in a primary it would be the whole class

Which is why the primary figure is listed separately to secondary schools.

what I'd like to see is how many of those contacts went on to get it?

We have no idea because they were not tested, and if they did get it, most would have been asymptomatic.

We know that isolating close contacts only was inadequate as a measure in secondary schools, and that too few were isolated because of the incredibly high infection rates in secondary school kids by Christmas.

This is well worn territory.

All staff have to wear masks in our school. Cant wait to not.

However a pub or restaurant with 30 customers would be the same no?

No. Unless you sit in the pub/restaurant for 5 hours and every hour go and sit at a different table.

DD's school are wearing masks until half term. I'm fine with that - they've always gone further than the guidelines and have had only a handful of positive cases. DD hasn't had to isolate at all (yet!).

Oh, and the pub has 250 customers for you to mingle with, it's not a table from the same selection of 30 each time.

[quote VaccineSticker]@TeddingtonTrashbag 🤣 @ your labelling of the paranoid parent.
You and the OP are so out of your depths. This variant is going to rip through the whole country and you are poking fun of the parent who is trying to be careful with the health? Maybe they are or in a bubble of a vulnerable person or don’t fancy getting long covid or fancy being irresponsible of being a carrier and potentially passing it on.

The country is on the brink of another big infection and you are b@@@ about masks as if they are the biggest evil in this world.
People need to lighten up and grow up.
I hate masks but there are worse things out there.[/quote]
Wow. Rip through the whole country...so vaccines count for nothing? Remembering that it actually doesn't matter how many young, healthy people get it because they won't end up in hospital due to being fundamentally low risk, having had it before or having it asymptomatically. I just don't understand the fear. Yes it's a horrible illness but the vulnerable are protected (or if not can shield a few more weeks until they're fully vaxed). It's seemingly forgotten on here that this illness is not a big problem for most people under 70!

I haven’t been in many pubs as small as my classroom, either!

@noblegiraffe

However a pub or restaurant with 30 customers would be the same no?

No. Unless you sit in the pub/restaurant for 5 hours and every hour go and sit at a different table.

The kids in your class stay in one room all day? That's awful. Luckily our school doesn't do that. They are still mixed for classes too.

@Howshouldibehave

I haven’t been in many pubs as small as my classroom, either!

Come to Sheffield! We love a micro pub here!

And in a pub/restaurant, the bar and waiting staff tend to be wearing masks and/or face shields and you are quite restricted as to where you can and can't go. Toilets for example were restricted to one in one out unlike secondary schools!

@mrshoho

And in a pub/restaurant, the bar and waiting staff tend to be wearing masks and/or face shields and you are quite restricted as to where you can and can't go. Toilets for example were restricted to one in one out unlike secondary schools!

Teachers are allowed to wear masks if they need to be within 2m aren't they? Like in the pub? Again though there is evidence to suggest children don't transmit it as easily as adults so I guess that has to be taken into account.

sensible and public spirited kids will keep on with the masks

Enough please.