What would happen if you didn’t get a second Vaccine?

[peacheswithcream]

I’m 35 with no underlying health conditions.

I was contacted by my GP in March to say I was eligible for the vaccine.

I contacted the surgery to query this, but the receptionist told me I was categorised under group 6 and I should take the vaccine.

I was thrilled and didn’t query this any further, I honestly just happily skipped along to the vaccination centre to get my first dose. I was given AstraZeneca.

I’m now due my second dose in 2 weeks and given the new guidance for under 40’s I really don’t know what to do.

I wish I had’ve waited, because if I had, I now wouldn’t be given AstraZeneca.

I have several friends in their late 30’s who have recently received their first dose of Pfizer.
I feel so envious and if I’m honest angry.

I know I should be extremely grateful that I have some protection, but I feel angry that I was so willing to just take a vaccine which is now being discontinued in my age group.

To date there have been 8 documented cases of blood clots following a second dose, and whilst I understand this number is small, I don’t think it’s a risk I want to take.

I tried to get an appointment with my GP last week to talk about this but I couldn’t get an appointment.
I asked the receptionist if she could see my medical records and tell me why I was group,
she told me It was relating to gestational diabetes (I was pregnant in 2019) so obviously my records hadn’t been updated.

I feel so angry with myself that I didn’t question this at the time I was offered the vaccine, but I was just so happy to be getting one that I went along with it.

I know no one can make my decision for me, it is anyone feeling the same way?

The goverment advice is quite clear:
assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/984404/PHE_COVID-19_AZ_vaccine_and_blood_clots_factsheet_7May2021.pdf

I'm in Bolton our cases are presen

What will happen is you won't be as protected and you might find yourself unable to access certain places that require two vaccines. My dd is far younger than you and is having her second dose because the risk of covid (not just to us but to society) if far higher than the risk of a clot especially as you won't affected the first time

The GP said there’s no chance she would recommend the second dose of AZ for me. I had a blood clot from the pill aged 20.
They are different types of clots. From the link I just posted:
"Importantly, a history of thromboses on its own is not a contraindication to the vaccine and individuals should be reassured that they can still receive the AZ vaccine when offered."
and
"The Expert Haematology Panel advise that there is no evidence that individuals with a prior history of thrombosis or known risk factors for thrombosis are more at risk of developing the immune
complication reported after the AZ vaccine.
Furthermore, for the majority of individuals, the risk
of recurrent thrombosis due to COVID-19 infection
is far greater than the risk of this syndrome.
If a patient has a history of, for example, a deep
venous thrombosis (DVT) or pulmonary embolus
(PE) without concurrent thrombocytopenia, then
they can receive the AZ vaccine."
But your history may of course be different, I have no idea.

Pressed to soon,I'm in Bolton and our cases are presently the highest in the UK, apparently there are currently 18 people in the Royal Bolton hospital with the Indian varient of covid ,most are unvaccinated but were eligigible for the vaccine,however five people have had one vaccine and were waiting for the second,also low numbers but I'm greatful on that basis I'm fully vaccinated.

The data coming out of Italy is saying that the protection from the first vaccine is very effective against serious illness, so you might get away with it (not suggesting this is a good idea as immunity won't last as long, so I'll be getting my second jab)

@Eminybob

Be grateful you have been offered an early vaccine, and get your second dose.

Or don’t, I don’t really care. I’m sick of people being so bloody ungrateful about being offered a vaccine that could save their life.

Ps if you have ever been on the pill you have had a higher risk of developing blood clots.

This

I'm 37 and group 4, had AZ. I would take it. It's such a tiny tiny risk I was probably more likely to be injured in a car crash driving to have the vaccine

Even if you were one of the very, very rare people to get a clot they are aware of them now and they can be treated. You are given a list of symptoms to watch for.

I have a blood clotting disorder but was advised it was still safer to go ahead with 2nd AZ vaccine as risk of clots from covid itself is far higher. I wouldn’t want to be dealing with clots and covid at the same time.

You might find this thread useful halfway down from Immunity DX

mobile.twitter.com/VikiLovesFACS/status/1393449865603133441

Firstly this is brain clots and not comparable with the pill clots - quite life changing if not fatal - so totally different type of clot!

Yes I'd be worried as the chances of the blood clot are more of a concern than the chances of dying of covid being young.
So that is why under 40s are being advised not to have AZ , and that the clots
Are more common the younger you are.

I held off for that reason to get Pfizer as it's frankly a numbers game.

The govt had the right strategy - vaccinate everyone etc etc but from an individual point of view it's better to avoid AZ if one can.

Can you see if you can join a study of AZ Jab 1 and Pfizer Jab 2 ?
Sure this will exist somewhere ?

Of course we know the chance of a blood clot is slim but even slimmer right now is catching and dying of covid at your age.

@Oaktree55

From what I have read (not medically/scientifically qualified) the first dose of AZ gives a very good T Cell response (the second shot doesn't really improve this it's impressive from first shot). This is opposite of Mrna where the second dose kicks in the T Cells. AZ 2nd dose boost Abs (which are lower with this type of vaccine overall than Mrna eg Pfizer).

So out of the two types its important to boost mrna eg Pfizer, less so AZ. So boosting will up your Ab response and create longevity to these but having good T Cell response initially means you will probably be symptomatic with one dose but likely not very ill (if you're in normal health to begin with).

Personally I think it is reasonable to wait if concerned to see out come of Comcov trial (mixing vaccines) due early June or waiting to see each Thursday when VAERS report is out, if the number of rare clot cases post second dose (currently 8) increases. It is not 100% confirmed that these 8 cases are the same in any event.

Interesting comments from Sir John Bell to a Canadian news network re: dose mixing -

And on the mixing of vaccines, Bell, who has intimate knowledge of the study currently taking place at the University of Oxford, said initial findings show severe side effect outcomes.

“Our experience to date is that it produces pretty severe reactogenicity, so severe that we don't think that's going to be viable and by that I mean, you get your second dose if you flip it over, you'll get really sick, so I would not advise that,” he said.

“And the second dose of AstraZeneca, which we now put in many, many millions of people who had a first dose of AstraZeneca, we’re not sure we can even find a single case of clotting problems. So, you know…this needs to be data driven.”

www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/astrazeneca-oxford-developer-blasts-canada-s-approach-to-vaccine-says-messing-around-is-going-to-cost-lives-1.5428725

@cronk23

My sister is in this predicament. 34 and had AZ as her first jab administered by our health board in her workplace as she works in the care sector. She's now in limbo because no one seems to know what to do with the under 40s who've had AZ. All the over 40s in her workplace have received their second jab but the under 40s can't get a straight answer regarding theirs. It's all a mess and it seems the experts haven't factored in the people who've had their first AZ dose.

They have factored those in and advise is very clear if you already had AZ first dose you proceed with the second dose as normal.

I'm 35 group 6 due to gestational diabetes in 2018, I've had both doses of AZ, I assess risk for a living. There are risks in absolutely everything we do, goodness don't ever read a paracetamol packet.

8 cases in twenty million

I'll take my chances

@IndigoC yes I read those comments but I also read the paper released a few days ago re side effects. Granted they were all >50 years in trial but they seemed manageable, his comments seem an exaggeration from what the paper reported. I don't know tricky but I stalk a few in the Comcov trial and they were all happily tweeting away post booster over the following days so who knows. Many in Europe are mixing so if it is horrific I am sure it will reach the press.

If you caught COVID. You’d have a 1 chance in 57,000 chance of getting clots

With the vaccine. There’s been only 8 cases worldwide.

If you drive or sit in a car for more than an hour. Or sit on the sofa for more than an hour. You’re more chance of having a clot.

If you’ve ever had a baby. You’ve got a chance of getting clots something like 1 in 1000.

Some women even get things like CAPS or multi organ failure due to blood clots. Being a woman there’s also a high chance of clots. Due to pregnancy.

I’ve had 10 blood clots. I’m still here.

@teammummy 8:20 million doesn't say very much as the younger cohorts (who this seems to affect more) have hardly had second doses yet! So you can't guage from that. The next few weeks as 2nd doses are reduced to 8 weeks and those who had first dose March will be telling.

[quote Oaktree55]@IndigoC yes I read those comments but I also read the paper released a few days ago re side effects. Granted they were all >50 years in trial but they seemed manageable, his comments seem an exaggeration from what the paper reported. I don't know tricky but I stalk a few in the Comcov trial and they were all happily tweeting away post booster over the following days so who knows. Many in Europe are mixing so if it is horrific I am sure it will reach the press.[/quote]
I read the paper too. I think Bell’s comments are potentially self-serving but he may also know more than has been publicly released.

Under 40s getting their first vaccine can still be fully vaccinated. So with them it’s balancing the risk of maybe waiting a few extra weeks to get the vaccine (but still being fully vaccinated) and the risk of clots. (Although I agree with the increasing cases the risk of waiting is increasing so this guidance may change in the coming weeks). However, if you have had you first vaccine it is about balancing the risk of not being fully vaccinated and the risk of clots. Unless there is special circumstances they are not currently mixing the different vaccines (although this may also change). The risk of not being fully vaccinated is deemed higher than the clot risk so that’s the reason for the current guidance.

It is of course your choice what you decide. It effects me in no way so I don’t care. But just make sure you fully understand the risks. It can be tempting to underestimate the risk of doing nothing.

To be honest I think we all take bigger risks in our daily lives. This one is just all over the news so we have become hyper aware of it. You are probably more likely to be hurt in a car accident than get a blood clot from the vaccine.

The second dose is what gives you long lasting immunity, hopefully for a year or more. The first dose will wane relatively quickly without the second dose to top it up.
Blood clots with the second dose are almost non existent, certainly not enough to worry about.
I wouldn’t hesitate personally, Covid can hospitalise and give you clots in your 30s. more risky than the vaccine

[quote Oaktree55]@teammummy 8:20 million doesn't say very much as the younger cohorts (who this seems to affect more) have hardly had second doses yet! So you can't guage from that. The next few weeks as 2nd doses are reduced to 8 weeks and those who had first dose March will be telling.[/quote]
@Oaktree55

It’s not really the younger cohorts though is it.
It’s quite spread out amongst a range of ages.

18-29 25
30-39 33
40-49 46
50-59 70
60-69 41
70-79 26
80-89 5
90-99 1
Unknown 15
Total 262

@sweetlikechamord yes it is but likely much more common younger ages. Issue is the JCVI doesn't release the number of doses per age so whilst we know how many cases of VITT/TTS per age band there is no denominator to work out how common it is per age. They are not very transparent. Obviously far more doses of AZ have been given out in 60-69 age band than 18-29 yet 18-29 is showing same number to date hence it is far more common younger.