Work from home if you can should stay in place, surely?

[Ninefeettall]

Just thinking about June 21st and Boris said as recently as yesterday or the day before that 'Work from home if you can' will be scrapped from 21 June. Surely if the Indian variant is a problem (which we don't know for sure yet) then this is a really, really, really easy win? 'If you can' doesn't have to include people who need to be in the office for mental health reasons or who can't work properly from home, but there are vast numbers of young, unvaccinated or partially vaccinated office workers who have now been working from home for a year, doing their jobs perfectly well if not better who could just keep doing that and not add to the commuters or office workers spreading the variant about.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

But we really need to sit back and think, is a split WFH/Office the worst thing?

For some of us yes. Why on earth would I want all my work shit constantly on display in the living room so I feel as though I'm living in the office? I'm sure all those who are desperate to wfh forever have the space to do so.

Working from home makes my life a misery and also DH's as he feels he can't sit in his own living room.

Ditto. I CAN work from home, but at the same time my office is open and most people are in sometimes and at home sometimes. So that's what I'm doing. I don't think I could ever go back to WFH full time. I really struggled with it, and I think if I'd done it none stop since March last year I'd be depressed by now.

@Bluntness100

Honestly I never cease to be astounded at the misinformation on these threads. Firstly and importantly he said if the vaccine proves significantly more transmissable then the road map is in jeapordy and they will reassess. Right now they think it’s marginal, but they don’t have enough evidence. They need to maintain a watching brief.

So no there is no definite it will be scrapped. It will be scrapped if there is no need for it

Secondly. People really need to remember that for anyone below fifty and not extremely vulnerable this is a totally benign virus.

So if it’s only marginally more transmissable and not any more lethal, then yes working from home dictate from the government can be scrapped and individual employers can make their own decisions.

Whilst I support the roadmap and getting back to normal we do need people to see that actually you don't have to be over 50 and extremely vulnerable for covid to be an unpleasant virus to have.

I am under 50 and, whilst clinically vulnerable, I am not extremely vulnerable, I have a health condition and medication that affects my immunity but wouldn't shorten my life span.

Covid put me in hospital. I was rushed to a and e due to a real risk of heart attack or stroke due to rocketing blood pressure. I am on two lots of medication just to keep it vaguely normal. I'm likely to have these for life. I also have 'long covid' type issues that persist some 7 months later that, whilst I can work, impact on how much I can do in my day to day life due to breathing issues, breathlessness, etc.

Okay, I didn't die, but covid wasn't a walk in the park and has left me with ongoing issues that are likely to be here for a long time yet,

I have under 50s colleagues who had covid which wasn't much worse than a heavy dose of flu, but who are left 6 months later with some post viral health issues ranging from ongoing coughs or loss of smell to insomnia, breathlessness and heavy fatigue.

City centres are quite frankly misery centres. So what if they suffer? The demand will shift and the suburbs will thrive. If the travel companies can't function without trains being packed with people like sardines in a can, they also have a bigger existential problem to solve. Not to mention the extortionate fares the commuter lines already charge for atrocious service.

Well here it is (4 pages already) - what many of us said all along

This isn’t about lockdowns

All these ‘we must lockdown’ people are actually saying ‘I’m a lazy sod who’s happy working at home whilst the rest of you plebs go to work’

Honestly it’s a joke

I’m talking about 1-2 days WFH a week, or maybe 3 one week, none the next. Flexibility. Independence.

In a one bedroom flat that would still be shit. I've made it very clear that I want to go back 5 days a week and if the office is going to be there (they have no plans to close it) then I'll be pushing for it as I don't see why it would be a problem. If I'm not allowed to there will be no more goodwill from me, I will be working my contracted hours only.

Regardless I still support the roadmap.

Re return to,offices I think businesses should be encouraged to allow for part time wfh for colleagues who want it, providing their work load/rate doesn't fall, and low those who want to return to do so.

Dh has been working in the office full time for weeks.
A friend hasn't been allowed in since last March but would love to return.
A family member hasn't been allowed in since last summer but would love to do wfh part time. She is more efficient at home as less distractions and better tech and WiFi at home.

All should be allowed to make these decisions with company support.

The issue comes because some bosses hate their staff wfh. Many hate the loss of control they have in checking up in their staff every two minutes, even when work rates remain the same.

[quote Unsure33]@Plumedenom

But you can not compare India and the UK .it’s not all about transmission.it’s living conditions,pre-existing medical conditions, the ability and willingness to socially distance etc.[/quote]
Exactly. Plus the % of the population vaccinated so far...

@Moomin12345

City centres are quite frankly misery centres. So what if they suffer? The demand will shift and the suburbs will thrive. If the travel companies can't function without trains being packed with people like sardines in a can, they also have a bigger existential problem to solve. Not to mention the extortionate fares the commuter lines already charge for atrocious service.

If half the number of people travel then the fares will go up even more or the service will be reduced until people are packed in again.

And city centres provide significant input to the economy. You aren't going to get primark etc opening up in every suburb. Plus when people work in a city they spend money there. When people work from home they often spend nothing in their local economy. Many of us are not allowed to use co working spaces for security reasons.

It is not a clear cut issue

But we really need to sit back and think, is a split WFH/Office the worst thing?

In theory, no.

In reality, it’s unlikely to hold together for any length of time.

This article was posted on here the other day and it’s so predictable how this is going to play out.

on.ft.com/3b5lplP

@PinkSparklyPussyCat ditto. If they force me to go back more than 3 days a week, there'll be zero goodwill from be as I resent wasting 10 hours a week on commutes to sit in my office and exchange occasional small talk in the hallways as I pump myself full of espresso to cope with inadequate sleep.

@feckwit

I guess if you are a cafe owner in central London, dependent on office worker trade, that’s the last thing they need? So many people impacted by what might seem a “no brainer” decision.

People on MN generally don’t care about the destruction of hospitality or the impact on people’s livelihoods. It’s been seen all along in the sneering “since when is going to the pub essential?” type posts.

100% agree with OP. And what on earth do teenagers have to do with it?!

The only reason I can think of, to scrap "wfh if you can", is to bring back footfall in city centres. Most offices are already open for those who cannot wfh for whatever reason. Loads of my DH 20-something employees book days in the office for MH reasons, no one is finding that problematic where he works.

Talking about "cowering at home" is an absurd exaggeration which of course you find on MN but rarely in real life where people have found ways to adjust to wfh. The number of people building garden offices in my town is testament to that.

@NothingIsWrong oh people still spend as long as they're not locked down. Local shops thriving at the expense of big chains like Primark, Costa, Starbucks and Pret is a fantastic change. People are not just born to be an economic statistic and prop the GDP, you know. Things change, the high Street has been dying for years before the pandemic due to the Internet.

We're in Bolton, a hotspot of the Indian variant and my DH has been told to continue working from home indefinitely even though everyone at his office has had both vaccines.
I know life has to get back to normal sooner or later but it seems this variant is going to cause big problems so only makes sense to WFH if you can

Ah people's livelihoods. Firstly, the coffee chains are staffed mostly by young Europeans in London. Many of them returned to their home counties due to the pandemic and Brexit. But it's nice you care about their livelihoods. Also, jobs don't magically disappear. One type of job is gone, another one pops up. What about coal miners? Some towns were literally built around coal mining. Changing that was painful but beneficial in the long run. Some adapt, some don't. Such is life.

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

I’m talking about 1-2 days WFH a week, or maybe 3 one week, none the next. Flexibility. Independence.

In a one bedroom flat that would still be shit. I've made it very clear that I want to go back 5 days a week and if the office is going to be there (they have no plans to close it) then I'll be pushing for it as I don't see why it would be a problem. If I'm not allowed to there will be no more goodwill from me, I will be working my contracted hours only.

Yes! So you can work 5 days a week.

But maybe one day you might have an electrician popping by to fix something, and want to WFH for one day. Or maybe one day you will be living somewhere you can WFH in a nice environment, and you might want to WFH for a few days a month?

@Bluntness100

Honestly I never cease to be astounded at the misinformation on these threads. Firstly and importantly he said if the vaccine proves significantly more transmissable then the road map is in jeapordy and they will reassess. Right now they think it’s marginal, but they don’t have enough evidence. They need to maintain a watching brief.

So no there is no definite it will be scrapped. It will be scrapped if there is no need for it

Secondly. People really need to remember that for anyone below fifty and not extremely vulnerable this is a totally benign virus.

So if it’s only marginally more transmissable and not any more lethal, then yes working from home dictate from the government can be scrapped and individual employers can make their own decisions.

I agree. I've been going back into the office one or two days a week, for my mental health. I feel so much better.

I follow Mac n' Chise on Twitter, so am aware that studies show the vaccines work against the Indian variant. If it's more transmissible but less deadly, then there's no reason to stay at home. I thought most viruses mutate in this way? It's normal.

Increase working from home and convert offices into retirement flats so older people can downsize and younger people can have family homes to have families in.

@Moomin12345

Ah people's livelihoods. Firstly, the coffee chains are staffed mostly by young Europeans in London. Many of them returned to their home counties due to the pandemic and Brexit. But it's nice you care about their livelihoods. Also, jobs don't magically disappear. One type of job is gone, another one pops up. What about coal miners? Some towns were literally built around coal mining. Changing that was painful but beneficial in the long run. Some adapt, some don't. Such is life.

You do know that most of the miners never worked again

My workplace on Scotland have said WFH wi be on place until at least 1st July and then they will do phased returns. Which makes sense.

@Moomin12345

Ah people's livelihoods. Firstly, the coffee chains are staffed mostly by young Europeans in London. Many of them returned to their home counties due to the pandemic and Brexit. But it's nice you care about their livelihoods. Also, jobs don't magically disappear. One type of job is gone, another one pops up. What about coal miners? Some towns were literally built around coal mining. Changing that was painful but beneficial in the long run. Some adapt, some don't. Such is life.

Almost true except those old mining towns didn’t get any decent industries to replace it.

I don’t count Amazon warehouses as decent.

If govts of the last 40 years had encouraged industries like biotech, tech, engineering, etc to spread out across the country and ideally within reach of these old mining towns, our country would be a much fairer and equal place, and almost certainly not voting Tory, whose apparent agenda is do to this, which if they did would mean the end of them. Boris has been harping on about the Biotech Golden Triangle (Oxford Cambridge and London) for years, how does this fit with levelling up?

@AmyFl

WFH should definitely stay in place. Its win-win. Also better for the environment.

Common fallacy.

Office that usually houses 30 people. Heated to a balmy 20 degrees. Now skeleton staff of 10 in the office, everyone else WFH. That’s 20 houses being heated in addition for an extra 8 hours a day.

Really think that’s burning less carbon than the average commute?

I’ve been back in the office part time since Jan. Full time now the kids are back.

We’ve had external meetings, business travel, I’ve had to provide lunches (am a PA), had contractors in and out. It’s like a revolving fucking door.

But as I’m the higher earner and we are a very low income family, I feel like I have no choice.

Oh and they did encourage us to fill in a Flexi request
So I think I'll do that, 2 days in office 2 days at home.

I know many of the miners never got a happy ending. However, they were highly specialised, started out young and their whole identity was based on their local community and mining. I'm sure being a barista isn't quite as specialised, emotive and it's not people's long-term dream career. It's a stepping stone. I can't imagine hearing about a devastated shop assistant who was made redundant and never worked again because of WFH...