Vaccines effective against b1617 variant

[Doireallyneedaname]

If J&J is, then surely AZ will be effective too.

www.firstpost.com/health/pfizer-moderna-johnson-and-johnson-vaccines-effective-against-b1617-variant-of-covid-19-says-top-us-health-official-9618181.html

.A recent study demonstrated the neutralization potential of Covishield (AstraZeneca) vaccinated individuals against variant B.1.617.1 and concludes vaccine-induced antibodies are protective to limit the severity and mortality of COVID-19.

On top of that AZ and the two Indian versions of AZ are the vaccines currently being used in India. Sadly they have only vaccinated s small percentage of people so the herd immunity effect can't happen yet.

Of the people that have been vaccinated so far anecdotal reports from hospital is that they are full of unvaccinated people. The few vaccinated people the see have no or only mild symptoms. Hopefully at some point we will have more solid evidence but if this is true AZ is doing its job well.

Whitty and most other scientists now believe that ALL the vaccines will work on all the variants. To cut hospitalisation and death greatly. The only grey area with this variant seems to be how much will the vaccines cut infection and transmission. That is why the slight concern.

Unfortunately it’s B.1.617.2 that is exploding here. Hopefully there will be similar efficacy against it.

The .2 version is supposed to be the least concerning. So it that is actually a good thing.

It doesn’t contain a mutation on site 484 like .1 does or other mutations of concern apparently. If you understand all that stuff

What surprises me is why the Johnson and Johnson vaccine works so much better than AstraZeneca against the S African variant. You would think they would be similar. I believe S Africa had to abandon the use of AstraZeneca because it was having little effect, and they switched to Johnson and Johnson which proved much more effective against the S African variant.

It had little effect because the wanted to use a 3/4 week gap. AZ takes longer for its effectiveness against infection to work. We know that already. Also it was a dish test in a lab. Vaccines like AZ are mostly about sorting out your immune system memory.

There is now a more recent lab dish study that shows a better effect against the south African variant. Again not using the immune system but done with a longer gap. So shows what you would expect and is higher effectiveness than WHO recommends for a vaccine.

The south African PM did say at the time they needed a vaccine the worked quickly because the were giving it to their health care workers. So Janssen was obviously better suited.

That part of the story was not reported much in the media though. Also he has know been criticised after the brilliant results AZ has had else where.

*now not know

How many times do I need to correct you on this? Actual real life clinical trials showed almost no protection against the SA variant. Extending the dose interval is unlikely to make a massive difference to that. I think you've become confused because people have given reasons why it might not be as bad as it seems, that doesn't mean it's actually good though.

@QueenStromba

How many times do I need to correct you on this? Actual real life clinical trials showed almost no protection against the SA variant. Extending the dose interval is unlikely to make a massive difference to that. I think you've become confused because people have given reasons why it might not be as bad as it seems, that doesn't mean it's actually good though.

Well tell Oxford that because there 12 week trial as you can see says you are wrong. Again like every time you use old trial data or partial data to try and argue AZ is crap. Lovely to be a Pfizer fan girl or whatever are but this is getting stupid if you don't look at all the evidence available now.

There still is no real world data for the AZ against the south African variant. Only two lab dish studies looking at antibodies made. Which doesn't tell the whole picture. Vaccines like AZ by there natural don't do well in serum tests. It is in the real world data they have been proven to work excellently. That is the only data that counts. In the mean time 64% effectiveness against infection from the south African variant is not bad because we know you use more than these antibodies to stop infection.

@IndigoC

Unfortunately it’s B.1.617.2 that is exploding here. Hopefully there will be similar efficacy against it.

Except that it isn't.

According to gov.uk it's still the B.1.1.7 ('UK') variant that is most prevalent and increasing most here.

Do you think the gov strongly believe one dose of AZ will not be enough for the Indian variant? I wonder if this is very likely to be the case, and why they are bringing forward the 12 weeks to 8 weeks for the second dose for the over 50's? (I am not sure I can have a second dose, and am over 50). I do hope it is just a precaution, but the gov don't really do caution in a big way, do they?

There is a lot of evidence that one dose of AZ is very effective with other variants. However yes I think they are playing safe because 4 of the people in Bolton were hospitalised despite having one dose. Though we don't know it was AZ it could have been Pfizer or Moderna. We also don't know when they had it. Could have been very recently etc. Also some scientists believe the second dose not only helps with longevity but the extra boost to cut infections and transmission.

To many what ifs to know what the government are thinking really.

www.politico.eu/article/eu-regulator-confident-vaccines-work-against-indian-coronavirus-variant/

@TruelyWonder

Oh yes, I also have just seen the following:

'Hancock told the BBC’s The Andrew Marr Show that five people who had received a single jab of a Covid vaccine have been hospitalised with the variant in Bolton, and one person who had received both. He said he was not aware of any deaths among people who had been vaccinated'.

The B.1.617.2 is predicted to become the most prevalent as it has a doubling time of only 1 week.

[quote penni00]@TruelyWonder

Oh yes, I also have just seen the following:

'Hancock told the BBC’s The Andrew Marr Show that five people who had received a single jab of a Covid vaccine have been hospitalised with the variant in Bolton, and one person who had received both. He said he was not aware of any deaths among people who had been vaccinated'.[/quote]
Yes a frail old lady that is 94 I think they have said. So not surprisingly really. At that age even a mild illness could cause problems.

I really wish we could have more information about hospital admissions, ages and all that. Someone said 37 unvaccinated people very ill but I haven't seen that officially else were. No one that has had one or two doses seriously I'll in ICU or anything by the sounds of it.

Yes, I know it sounds selfish but I am desperate for the information, because my second dose has been brought forward, I have the invite to go this week. (Was not meant to be having it until near mid June). But because I still have side effects from the first dose, I was not going to go this week for the second dose, and perhaps hang on for the Autumn booster instead.
Now, I am not so sure if the Indian variant is a serious risk to those only having had the one dose... If those with one dose that are hospitalised are so because the one dose was just too recent, I would like to know.
Sorry, it seems a bit mean talking about these poor hospitalised people like this.

I don't think it is mean at all. People are ok to worry and want facts.

Whatever you do the second dose will take at least a week to do its magic.

They are thinking at the moment we may only give boosters to the elderly and CEV because the vaccines do work on all now variants. However these people have weaker immune systems and lose antibodies faster. No decision has been made yet.

Whitty at the last briefing seemed very keep to bring the second dose to 8 weeks. Which considering he was also saying made the vaccines a little less effective. You have to ask yourself why if one dose was thought to be enough.

Personally if Whitty or VanTam is saying ok folks we need to change the gap because we may have as issue. Even if they don't tell me the issue I would do what they are saying.

Anyway good luck with deciding. If I see anything about ages or when the jab was given to those 4 with one dose in hospital. I will let you know.

Thank you.
I believe the Autumn booster will include those over 50, (that is me), I don't like to think of myself as elderly though!

@penni00

Thank you. I believe the Autumn booster will include those over 50, (that is me), I don't like to think of myself as elderly though!

My sister is in her 50s. I often with 2 grandchildren. I often call her Grannie. She looks at me like murder

I know I shouldn't speculate, but the more I think about it, and read between the lines, I believe Whitty etc have seen evidence pointing to the Indian variant evading the one dose (prob the AZ).

Sorry that went weird

*with two grandchildren children

No idea where the I often came from

@penni00

I know I shouldn't speculate, but the more I think about it, and read between the lines, I believe Whitty etc have seen evidence pointing to the Indian variant evading the one dose (prob the AZ).

Well yes exactly but like you say we can't speculate

My thinking is along the same lines. They don't make such a decision without a reason. It not only has a very small effect on the efficacy of the vaccine but also makes a new complication admin wise for the NHS. Plus sends millions of people off trying to reschedule their appointments.

No a descion taken lightly at all really