I can see a dentist, an osteopath and have an x ray. Why can't I see my GP face to face?

[pinkprosseco]

Where I am Registered the GP only does telephone triage and almost never invited anyone in for face to face appointment whether that's a persistent cough (not Covid), abdominal pains or potential arthritis, a ? Lesion on the skin etc etc. I feel that long after other key workers have gone back to normal, GPS who we depend on as a first line of advice and diagnosis, are shirking responsibility. Surely the missed diagnosis the BBC and other current affairs websites are referring to are only going to get worse. Why isn't there a mandate they return to work properly. Anyone else?

It's absolutely ridiculous. My GP finally agreed to see my 2 year old this week who has been unwell for nearly 4 weeks. When I questioned him he said that she was the only patient he had seen face to face that day!

[quote BuggerBognor]**@BuggerBognor £63K for what exactly? 3 full days before tax would be my guess? So 36 hours work.

Are you suggesting that’s a poor salary for 36 hours of work? Have you any idea what the average salary is in the U.K.? Even the average graduate salary? Do you have the faintest idea of the actuarial value of your NHS pension or how much you’d have to save to get an equivalent annuity?

It’s batshit that GP’s are paid this kind of bloated salary to work as part time gatekeepers. When even that service is inaccessible to many (which I accept is at least in part due to appalling government) it’s risible.[/quote]
Where did I suggest anything? You're the one going off on one. You were talking about two days a week, I was enquiring if you meant three because that's more realistic. I've seen you on many threads before always name changing but saying the same things. I remember you very well from the teacher bashing threads from earlier this year, you appear on all the doctor bashing threads too. Feel free to retrain if the pay is so good. There's a huge shortage, we need everyone we can get. Don't make assumptions about what I do or do not think. I've seen loads of face to face patients today. I've offered face to face appointments today to people who didn't want to come. A few weeks ago I was giving up my evenings and weekends to volunteer for the vaccination clinics (note volunteer i.e. unpaid) but I've stopped doing this now because the recurrent GP bashing on here and the general media sapped any remaining feeling of altruism left from me and it was better to stop than burn out. The last few weeks have been horrendous, we've had thousands more patients contact us per week than previous years. Myself and lots of friends are looking to reduce our sessions to prevent burn out and trying to work out a 'plan B'.

A lot of people on here have had bad experiences, I don't doubt there are a few bad apples. People seem to forget that we're not an emergency service though. A quinsy or lower abdominal pain with bleeding in early pregnancy which might be an ectopic or an abscess which needs to draining are not to be dealt with in general practice.

Pet8 DH is ok now thanks in spite of the 'care' he recieved. The worst bit was having to give the history 5 times to 111/GP while he got sicker and sicker in the car park! The NHS triage questions asked if he had a 'hot potato voice' as a red flag symptom - well I have no idea what that means but he did have a massive abcess partly blocking his throat and was struggling to speak but they counted that as a no! Hope you get access to a doctor soon. It is not making a fuss - if it is quinsy it can be serious but is v treatable. All the best to you.

Expulsocorona, I take the point that a quinsy, once identified is a hospital visit not GP. However, given that DH started off with huge lymph glands in neck and clavicle on the side of his jab (and no obvious quinsy at that stage) his symptoms were quickly attributed to his recent vaccine, neither 111 nor the 2 GPs we spoke to over the Bank Holiday weekend flagged up the urgency of his throat symptoms despite a full history & all repeated that it was normal to get side effects from the jab even when we called back with his new, worsening condition. I had to beg to even get a call back from out of hours GP as he did not have a 'hot potato voice' apparently so was put on a 6 hour wait. People will die from sepsis if something doesn't change and every symptom is mistakenly attributed to vaccination.

I had to change GP surgeries because of the absolute abysmal care my DH and I received during the pandemic. Our old surgery was not seeing patients face to face. Preferred sending passive aggressive texts after submitting eConsult forms. They left my husband without appropriate pain management for an old injury and did nothing about a severely twisted ankle apart from an X-ray. Multiple eConsults about the ankle with pain registering at an 8 on DHs scale.

Changed surgeries.

The ankle they told him would get better on its own needs surgery. The old injury? Same.

I was accused of lying that I couldn’t breathe. GP reluctantly sent me to the hub. I had blue tinged lips. I told them this on the phone. My sats were 92% and pulse was 115 bpm. I got a rediagnosis of my childhood asthma, but the GP continued to reluctantly prescribe inhalers and was slow to change and up doses. I’ve now had 17 weeks’ of prednisolone and multiple courses of antibiotics. If it was managed sooner maybe that would have been avoided.

That being said. I like phone triage. I think if GPs care and want to do their jobs properly it is an incredibly useful tool. I also love the eConsult forms my old (and current) GPs use. I just think Covid is being used as a blanket excuse for them not to see patients, but nurses have worked the entire way through seeing people face-to-face. Doesn’t seem safe.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/05/13/every-patient-have-right-see-gp-nhs-abandons-total-triage/

The NHS on Thursday night performed a climbdown over plans to use online and telephone "screening" for GP appointments and announced that every patient will now have the right to see their doctor face-to-face.

The Telegraph revealed on Wednesday that family doctors had been told to introduce a system of "total triage", meaning those seeking to see their GP were being discouraged and told to have an online or phone discussion first.

But NHS England has now ordered that the system be abolished amid a mounting backlash from patients' groups and doctors. New guidance to all GPs will instead say that every practice in England must make "a clear offer of appointments in person" and respect the preferences of patients.

Dr Nikki Kanani, the NHS medical director for primary care, and Ed Waller, the director of primary care, wrote to all GPs on Thursday night to inform them that the new operating procedures supersede all previous guidance.

I follow a British/Indian GP on twitter. His view is that the Government are trying to force 90% of GP appointments online as then it's easier to replace British GPs with much cheaper ones in India.

I don't think it's a crazy idea looking at what's happened in banking and accountancy. Why not?

@FakeColinCaterpillar

My usually fabulous practice is dreadful. It’s almost impossible to get through on the phone. They close for 2 hours every day. The call back system constantly cuts you off after waiting for an hour for the call back.

DH had a phone message to ring them yesterday. Tried calling. Failed. Did an econsult to them them. They ring when he’s on a call. Then repeat. Took over 24 hours to find out they want him to come in for a blood test.

I was in for a blood test myself. There were 2 people waiting to see doctors. Both young. First thing I said to DH ‘where are all the old people’. How many times are they ringing to speak to a human. Ludicrous.

@FakeColinCaterpillar just to pick up on the 'close 2 hours a day', have you considered that this might be when they deal with the mountain of econsults? I'm really looking forward to getting rid of these if we are allowed to go back to normal. And ditching the phone calls.

Luckily the elderly seem to be more confident to come in now that a lot of ours have had their second jabs but we're still trying to distance people in our waiting room.

I keep saying this. Both me and husband wfh, within earshot of each other. I’m trying to leave and get DS MH support because of us both being in the house during husband’s violent self harm. I cannot discuss this with him listening. I could claim “lady’s issues” and be open with the gp about my need for mh support when I get there if there was a route.

I could manage it if I could reliably have an appointment time even. I “nipped to the shops” when I was told I had the first appointment of the day. After an hour sat freezing in the car park I went home. When the gp rang a further two hours after that I asked for a repeat of a medication that didn’t need review, because I was stuck at home at that point.

@MinesAPintOfTea please please just say it's 'a lady issue' and get yourself seen. Or just walk into reception when you nip to the shops and tell them your situation. Or email the practice if you can do so safely. I'm not sure how old your DS is but some CAMHS services accept self referrals and all also accept referrals from schools if that's easier. I hope you're ok.

@Tayberrytangle

Pet8 DH is ok now thanks in spite of the 'care' he recieved. The worst bit was having to give the history 5 times to 111/GP while he got sicker and sicker in the car park! The NHS triage questions asked if he had a 'hot potato voice' as a red flag symptom - well I have no idea what that means but he did have a massive abcess partly blocking his throat and was struggling to speak but they counted that as a no! Hope you get access to a doctor soon. It is not making a fuss - if it is quinsy it can be serious but is v treatable. All the best to you.

I must admit both 111 and paramedic who assessed him over the phone were brilliant. They were going to send out an ambulance as I don't drive and the hospital is a distance way. Fortunately, he said he'd be fine in a taxi. I couldn't accompany him obviously. Paramedic said he'll probably be given antibiotics intravenously now. She did speak to him to gauge his voice and said she could hear he was having difficulty. The ironic thing is, our dog has an ear infection which has developed into a hematoma. Nurse triaged her over the phone this morning (she's a clever dog but doesn't talk much. I had to explain on her behalf 😉) and vet is calling back to discuss treatment tomorrow.

I struggle to stick to precise times because so many of my calls are about mental health and I can't cut a patient off from talking at the 10 minute mark so they often overrun.

@whiteblinds

We have telephone triage and then the doctor decides if we need to come in. My son has been seen face to face twice this year.

I like the telephone triage. Much better idea

Telephone triage has its place but surely the next step should be face to face for lots of problems but where I am it isn't. I've been sent for X-rays without seeing the GP even on video call. The radiographer refused to X-ray my back as the GP hadn't carried out a proper assessment and the dose of radiation is high and potentially harmful. My GO just sent me for X-ray without seeing me! I wasted an appointment in radiology and could have been exposed to radiation unnecessarily.

@Iamthewombat

My fully-vaccinated, 90 year old father couldn’t get an appointment for a persistent cough. The GP practice would only allocate phone appointments on a daily basis, and you had to phone them at 8 am, when the lines opened, to get one.

The phones were engaged until 10.30 am, at which point the receptionist would announce that there were no appointments left for the day, no she wouldn’t give him an appointment for later in the week and he needed to try again the next morning.

This went on for several days.

Eventually I called them and insisted that he be given a face to face appointment, which he got, but why make it so difficult?

Older people without an advocate are at risk of being forgotten and deteriorating

[quote ExpulsoCorona]@MinesAPintOfTea please please just say it's 'a lady issue' and get yourself seen. Or just walk into reception when you nip to the shops and tell them your situation. Or email the practice if you can do so safely. I'm not sure how old your DS is but some CAMHS services accept self referrals and all also accept referrals from schools if that's easier. I hope you're ok.[/quote]
I’m trying to get help. Husband is also a governor at the school, which makes it more complicated.

I know it’s not easy to manage telephone appointments, but I had the 8:30 slot (first one when surgery opens) and sat in the car for an hour. I can’t keep doing that. I had some help before the last lockdown, that I’m just broken now.

Walk into reception is impossible though. I’ve been past: it’s buzz on the door (on a shopping street) and give your name and appointment details to the intercom. I’m not standing on a busy street in town shouting at a buzzer that I can’t cope with my husband.

I can tell reception it’s a “lady’s issue”. The gp who calls back wants a bit more detail. And I can’t give that if I have no idea when they will actually ring (to within an hour, and a text message if they are over half an hour late would be fine. The computer system in reception used to know how long you are likely to wait)

@prettylittlestar

Same. I have had so many issues with ongoing health but never have they once asked me to go in. Yet I've had several dentist appointments and had constant letters and texts telling me to go for an eye test.

That's exactly my experience. Been sent off for investigations but never seen my GP in the last 14 months

@WhoNeedsaManOfTheWorld

I think they will use this to never go back to how it was. OK some things needed changing but not like this. They have no way of seeing change in vulnerable patients because they are not seeing them I work in an NHS community team and we have continued all through covid. Why is it safe for us and not GPs and we are going into patients houses so it's a much harder environment to control We may as well just Google our own symptoms at this rate

Exactly

@Couchbettato

OP I agree. I have a mole on my neck that is now actually 2 moles.

The desk dragons think they know better, just keep repeating the same mantra that it's telephone only and when you absolutely insist they tell you you're going round in circles and they just hang up.

No other GP in my catchment area, and don't even have a tenner to my name at this time of month so can't afford to go private.

We all pay towards the national health already. It shouldn't mean we can only get seen if we can afford to pay more. The system favours those who are articulate and can challenge the system, those who can be flexible and take a callback at any time or those who can pay for an alternative. It's disproportionately impacting the vulnerable, those not in desk jobs or with technology like IPads and those who can't articulate and challenge or pay privately. That's why it's so wrong.

The NHS on Thursday night performed a climbdown over plans to use online and telephone "screening" for GP appointments and announced that every patient will now have the right to see their doctor face-to-face.

GOOD. About time these GPs got back to work and put their patients’ needs first.

Precisely, @pinkprosseco.

@IhaveMyMoments

My son had all his allergies and skin issues 'diagnosed' over the phone and by text! He was 3m old for over 3m after we were given so many different things. In the end we had a paediatrian apt and she hit the roof and said wth this is a young baby and the wouldn't see face to face.

Even 3 weeks ago I had to argue as he had upset tummy and earache and wheazing (due to allergies but needed to rule out infection) . I had to argue to get them to see him. A
Originally they said they'd see him in the car park! I said pardon he's not a dog going to the vet. It was chilly and no way was I stripping him down outside.
What could have been a quick call to book an apt ended up 3 hours to and throw before being seen was very stressful.

I need to see a gp. I have severe ovary pain. But I know they won't see me so can't see the poiny in calling

That's awful. I just don't understand. I'm sure GPS were vaccinated early on in fact I know our GP receptionists got vaccinated at the same time as social care staff. Why? In case they catch Covid over the phone? With good hand hygiene and PPE and vaccinations and cleaning down after patients which they should do anyway, what actually is the risk?

@BuggerBognor

*www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2021/05/11/joys-needless-death-should-cautionary-tale-gps-still-hiding/*

A very eye-opening article - thank god, for the sake of all the other patients out there like this one, this decision has been reversed. 100,000 undiagnosed cancer patients is a national disgrace, most of which can be laid at the door of NHS primary care.

@ExpulsoCorona you have me confused with another poster. I’ve not name changed for < 2 years and I have never discussed teachers on MN - I have no need to, my son is educated privately and (unlike GP’s, whom we are all forced to endure) I don’t have skin in the game. Have you considered there is more than one other MN’er who does not share your world view?

Going on the attack - albeit at the wrong target - is a really good (if transparent) way of avoiding my awkward questions about your obscene salary though.

Sorry about getting you confused, you sound really similar to another poster.

ROFL about my 'obscene salary', you haven't a clue about me!

@pinkprosecco you're right, we all had our first jabs ages ago and a lot of us have recently had our second. Do you genuinely believe it's been about us catching Covid? Has it occurred to you that the most vulnerable are only just getting their second jabs, they're the ones we're trying to protect. Once they're protected, perhaps we won't need to socially distance patients in our waiting rooms (variants permitting). What actually is the risk? Are you for real?