Third booster jab for over 50s in Autumn

[RedToothBrush]

Times reporting today that the current plan going forward is now to give a third jab to the over 50s and clinically vulnerable in the Autumn.

Its thought that case numbers will be so low it wont be necessary to boost the under 50s unless they have clinical need.

The proposal is to do this at the same time as the flu vaccine. (which leaves the question hanging about those under 50 who qualify for the free flu jab due to work).

There are two trials ongoing over how to do this apparently. One is a variant specific booster (similar to how we do flu vaccines) and the other is just a straight booster with the same vaccines we've already got (it doesn't say anything about mix and matching vaccines I note).

This sounds extremely promising and proactive though I confess I'm not entirely sure how I feel about being in my 40s and apparently not needing a booster.

It does sound as if the autumn may be less fraught with concern regarding a new wave than has been suggested up to this point.

So if it’s only over 50s that need the booster why vaccinate under 50s? If they are saying it’s because of waning immunity then you will have lots of under 50s previously vaccinated without immunity so what’s the purpose of vaccinating them in the first place ?

Probably because under 50s have stronger immune systems anyway, so there's a likelihood that the immunity might not wane as fast; declining immunity could still prevent serious infection, and when they are less at risk of that anyway, two doses might be enough to continue providing that; they might well get third doses at some further point in the future; the current immunity might be enough to drive cases low enough that only a portion of the population needs to be revaccinated at any given time to keep up the herd immunity, and it might make sense to start with more vulnerable people; vaccinating everyone now gets case rates low enough that mutations are less likely, and means there is just less virus circulating in the population to affect everyone. etc.

I can see why the very old could need a booster - as there is worry the immune system gets less good at responding to vaccines with age but 50 does seem to be young for that concern.

Is 50 the cut off because that when there is a rise in hopitalization which they want to avoid again- I don't know.

also likely to be some element of cost/time/hassle benefit analysis, and a cut-off age at the moment doesn't mean a long term decision about anything, nor does it mean a total absence of risk for under 50s (or whichever age) if they decide not to vaccinate at the moment, just that the current schedule might not include certain populations for various reasons.

It could also be that as well as being at lower risk to begin with, the under 50s will have had their first two vaccines more recently and will still have immunity from that, whereas for older people their second vaccine will be longer ago.

This will not just be the UK, the US and Europe will probably be providing boosters, explains the huge Pfizer orders from the Uk and EU. With difficulties getting supplies for the new generation of vaccines there is likely to be limited sharing for quite awhile.

@Lucidas - it would help if other developed countries could just crack on with initial vaccination. Britain cannot fight alone and until there is more significant progress elsewhere in Europe and they stop fannying around then we have to do all we can to protect our own country.

Has anything been mentioned about NHS staff receiving the booster vaccines or just over 50s?

The BBC is saying that there is no decision on if they will do boosters, or who will get them, they are just preparing themselves in case it's needed.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56984984

[quote Inastatus]@Lucidas - it would help if other developed countries could just crack on with initial vaccination. Britain cannot fight alone and until there is more significant progress elsewhere in Europe and they stop fannying around then we have to do all we can to protect our own country.[/quote]
Actually the vaccination programme has massively accelerated on the continent in the past few weeks. Germany was doing a million jabs a day and there was talk of all adults being vaccinated by end of July, if I remember correctly. It’s all good news.

@Earlgrey666

Has anything been mentioned about NHS staff receiving the booster vaccines or just over 50s?

Exactly, the NHS proper frontline staff actually treating Covid patients face-to-face are the first to get any new variant at a massive viral load.

They and their families were the worst affected in each of the previous outbreaks of the various variants.

Still the PPE is totally crap - FFP1 masks lower quality than is mandatory for the general public in Europe. Scrubs taken away so they have to wash their own uniforms at home in their domestic household machines. Inadequate shower provision at work etc.

These staff need to be the first to be vaccinated to stop the transmission (and deaths) within this group, their families and wider communities of any new variants that come into hospital.

@schulte - that’s great news for Germany. However in France the take up is still hesitant and apparently stocks of vaccine are piling up and Denmark has just halted the use of J&J as well as the AZ vaccine.

I believe Denmark has halted AZ and J&J because they have enough other vaccines to keep ploughing through their vaccination programme. No?

And France is planning to offer all adults a jab from 15 June.

So is it over 50s and CEV

Or over 50s CEV and CV?

As PP said, the over 50’s & flu jab list members are most vulnerable to serious illness. They also had their first vaccines from December onwards, so early on.

We don’t know how long the vaccines will protect for, it could be a year, it could be 12 years. It’s a brand new vaccine, brand new virus. Many vaccines do last for years & years, with the very occasional booster. We just won’t know for a couple years minimum!

So, 100% better to boost the vulnerable over the less vulnerable for two reasons:

1. They had their vaccines early. 30-40 year olds won’t have shot number one until mid-May. 40-50 have had it in April/early May. They don’t a booster in October, they’ll have protection for at least a year until the following Spring! When hopefully seasonality will kick again & lower any spike in infections,
2. Better to protect the vulnerable & test the longevity of the vaccine on the less vulnerable!

We shouldn’t be selfish with vaccines. Vaccinate all adults, boost the vulnerable & let the poorer world have access.

@Nerdygirl

So if it’s only over 50s that need the booster why vaccinate under 50s? If they are saying it’s because of waning immunity then you will have lots of under 50s previously vaccinated without immunity so what’s the purpose of vaccinating them in the first place ?

It's worth considering that the over 50s and vulnerable had their vaccines sooner so if its a case of the vaccine immunity decreases over time then under 50s who had their vaccine later would still hold some good immunity from their original 2 doses

Has anyone out there been allowed by a GP to mix Covid vaccines after having had a serious reaction to the first dose of vaccine?

@schulte - France might be planning to offer the vaccine to all adults but so far the uptake has not been great.

I stand by the point I was making to the poster who was questioning the ethics of the booster programme - until Europe and other developed countries catch up with vaccination then we need to protect ourselves against variants. There then needs to be a joint effort to help other countries with their vaccinations.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

So is it over 50s and CEV

Or over 50s CEV and CV?

The government hasn't apparently even confirmed that it is all over 50s, so I don't think anyone knows yet - it's still in the planning stages, from the last report I read.

I hope all over 50s, CEV, CV, and health and care workers, but that might be optimistic (basically all groups 1-9!)

@Nerdygirl

So if it’s only over 50s that need the booster why vaccinate under 50s? If they are saying it’s because of waning immunity then you will have lots of under 50s previously vaccinated without immunity so what’s the purpose of vaccinating them in the first place ?

Good question...And conversely, what's the point of vaccinating them now while there are minimal cases about when their immunity could have waned by midwinter?

And conversely, what's the point of vaccinating them now while there are minimal cases about

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Also, are you saying you prefer repeated lockdowns - ie what wrestled down the numbers when vaccination programme was in its infancy, and is the only real alternative to population level vaccine-based control. Something which we really need to get in place before the next winter virus season

Something which we really need to get in place before the next winter virus season

Assuming that vaccinating now means that immunity will still be in place in winter for those not being offered boosters.
If it's less likely, they might as well put it on hold for a while and give people first doses closer to a likely winter resurgence.

One is a variant specific booster (similar to how we do flu vaccines) and the other is just a straight booster with the same vaccines we've already got (it doesn't say anything about mix and matching vaccines I note).

I’m confused. A poster on a different thread stated that you could not have more than two doses of the adenovirus-type vaccines (i.e. AZ) because the efficacy of the third dose of the same vaccine would be too low. Is this not correct? (I’ve also read an article which seems to back this up, I obviously don’t automatically believe everything I read on here!).

@Buzzinwithbez seems we are the only one questioning this! And mixing and matching vaccinations, we don’t do this with pets and assume they are covered so why is it ok here ?