I don't think 'discouraging' people from taking holidays abroad will work, do you?

[Tuesdaysintheazores]

If the government lift restrictions on holidays abroad people will go on them. They're either allowed or they're not, I don't think the government can discourage people can they?

Agreed. There is no point making it legal again but then saying "ah, but please don't". Either you can or you can't. If you can then people should be free to do so without being frowned upon.

The issue for many that have had flights or holidays moved from last year is that unless travelling your destination is specifically not permitted then it makes it difficult to get a refund or claim on travel insurance. So if our holiday moved from last year does not come under any restrictions we either go through with it or loose the money. Then there's the risk that even if you can go that circumstances change while you are abroad requiring hotel quarantine at £1,750 per person on return. I really want a holiday but the risk of having to spend 10 days in hotel prison is really putting me off

I think people are forgetting the requirements in the countries they plan to travel to will differ from here. What if you test positive abroad and are then stuck there at your own expense isolating and unable to return to your job? I suppose that won't be an issue for people who are retired but the rest of us?

I'm not sure I want to live in a country where the government can easily forbid people from leaving. As PP said, that's a huge thing to do.

This is the tactic Saint Nicola has been employing in Scotland for months. The po-faced, pursed lipped "just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD".

I think people are forgetting the requirements in the countries they plan to travel to will differ from here. What if you test positive abroad and are then stuck there at your own expense isolating and unable to return to your job?

That's a good point Toty

Agreed @Toty people who are travelling need to make sure they have belt and braces travel insurance and need to be aware they do so at their own risk. Also not sure that we are covered by EHIC cards for treatment in EU anymore?

Went abroad twice last year (one at the beginning of year) and have three trips booked this year by which time I will be fully vaccinated. If I can legally go then nothing will discourage me.

@SilverGlitterBaubles

Agreed *@Toty* people who are travelling need to make sure they have belt and braces travel insurance and need to be aware they do so at their own risk. Also not sure that we are covered by EHIC cards for treatment in EU anymore?

Now called GHIC (global health insurance card) but EHIC'a are valid till they run out, give the same cover they always did.

It’s like the Christmas mixing messaging all over again. Saying it’s allowed but then also advising against it.

EHIC cards are still valid if they are in date.

@Toty
This has always been a risk when you go on holiday or to visit relatives abroad. You can get ill with anything or have an accident and end up in hospital and unable to return to work as planned. We have all lived with these risks for years without giving them hardly a second thought but now, all of a sudden, we are all supposed to become totally risk averse!

@PuffinShop

My perspective on it is that it is a pretty huge infringement of people's rights to prevent them from leaving their own country. I think that it would be fine for the UK government to discourage foreign travel without making it illegal.

The measures regarding mandatory testing and quarantines are already very off-putting to most people and are tantamount to a policy of discouraging travel, as well as serving a risk mitigation purpose.

In my view, it's one thing to put those hoops in the way - I consider these to be reasonable temporary precautionary measures. It's quite another thing to criminalise the travel altogether - that is a truly extraordinary measure that should require the situation to be an absolute state of emergency.

Completely agree. I find it disturbing how many people are comfortable with the idea of a democratic government telling citizens it is illegal to leave, or even that they may only do so for arbitrary 'essential' reasons. That's the sort of thing I have always associated with Eastern Bloc countries back in the day.

I agree, either people can go with tests and if deemed necessary proper quarantining, or they can't. Also vehemently disagree with loopholes for second home owners in England. To be fair British Government less fond of the - just because you can doesn't mean you should - school of governing than the Scottish government and most of mumsnet.
When borders open up again I predict the denunciation of the selfish and the self justification of those with relatives abroad.

When borders open up again I predict the denunciation of the selfish and the self justification of those with relatives abroad.

Oh, that’s been going on a long time now! Also those who still travel for work or, god forbid, people needing to travel to a red list country with an urgent, essential reason for doing so.

People have been travelling, holidays will be allowed. Only difference this time is I am going to enjoy my summer in the Uk and not hide away, so when we get more cases and variants in the Uk and lock down again and schools close again in autumn at least my children will have done more than go for a walk!

If the vaccines are worth anything, then let the foreign travel commence.
Any dithering on this tells me the vaccines are pointless.

It's a bit of a fudge really isn't it? There are a few lockdown fetishists in Sage etc who are determined to drag this thing out for all it's worth. I strongly suspect these folk will be secretly disappointed once this is all over 🤔 especially as their livelihoods are not impacted (quite the opposite actually).
So I guess BJ has to pay lip service to them while at the same time opening up foreign travel, as he said he would based on data.

If people are allowed, they will travel. I suspect this will happen, and in larger numbers than last summer. No amount of "discouragement" is going to realistically stop people.

Holiday travel last year was contributory to the upswing in infections and the subsequent lockdowns. On the plus side, many of us have been vaccinated now, but if we don't want a winter surge we will holiday at home. We may well get a winter surge anyway, but no one needs to travel to risk importing vaccine resistant variants. There are a select few who should be travelling, like pilots crewing freight flights etc, but everyone else should sodding well stay home. Including royals on jollies to Greece, and people whinging about relatives abroad. Yes, it's tough not seeing them, tough not attending funerals etc. But for the greater good, just suck it up. This pandemic won't last forever, but it will last longer if fuelled by travel.

"Holiday travel last year was contributory to the upswing in infections and the subsequent lockdowns"
There is zero proof of this.
I wish fake news like this would be challenged more.

But for the greater good, just suck it up.

I won't, no.

@StapMe

Holiday travel last year was contributory to the upswing in infections and the subsequent lockdowns. On the plus side, many of us have been vaccinated now, but if we don't want a winter surge we will holiday at home. We may well get a winter surge anyway, but no one needs to travel to risk importing vaccine resistant variants. There are a select few who should be travelling, like pilots crewing freight flights etc, but everyone else should sodding well stay home. Including royals on jollies to Greece, and people whinging about relatives abroad. Yes, it's tough not seeing them, tough not attending funerals etc. But for the greater good, just suck it up. This pandemic won't last forever, but it will last longer if fuelled by travel.

Where do I even begin.

I will just focus on your first sentence. No, it wasn’t foreign travel. It was the inability of the authorities to make sure people were complying with quarantines properly. Let’s stop blaming all of this on those who did nothing illegal, nothing irresponsible. People came back from holidays and went straight into shops and schools, if they’d been properly checked like they do now, the damage would have been reduced. And like you say, the winter surge might have happened either way.

No it won’t work. Given how many don’t follow the actual laws why would they follow recommendations?

Would have been better to have firm quarantine hotels in place for those who won’t forgo travel and protect what we have worked hard for. Many simply wouldn’t bother if they knew it was two weeks expense in quarantine in the way back in.

I'll be 100% vaccinated by the summer, and currently have a weeks holiday booked in Italy in September. If its legal and it looks as if it will be a pleasant experience to go (eg able to eat/drink outside, museums and galleries open, being able to walk around outside without masks) then I'll go. I appreciate that there is a risk that I can bring a strange foreign varient home from Italy, but given that we're in a very interconnected world, I could probably pick up the same variant in London [which I have to visit occasionally for work]. And my particular risk assessment involves going from a regional airport which even in Before Times was pretty easy to navigate without massive queues. And, yes, as someone who works from home, I'd be entirely fine to quarantine at home after my visit if it was necessary.

Keeping my fingers crossed that we will be able to go to Scotland in August. Cottage and ferry booked, so fingers crossed for 2 peaceful weeks in the Highlands.