To break the rule of six for my birthday?

[44jams]

It’s my birthday on Sunday and I’m planning to have a small gathering in the garden with friends. I know I’m meant to stick to the rule of six, but it just seems so nonsensical, considering that we will all be outdoors so our risk of catching the virus is tiny. Would you break the rules and have say five or six households (or 20ish people) round? Or stick to the rule of six even though as I say, the chance of catching it outside is tiny?

20 isn't anywhere near 6! No I wouldn't. An extra 1 or a child possibly but that's taking the p. That's 20 people sharing bathroom facilities.

I'm not a stickler for the rules at all. However I would say 20 people is pushing it and likely to be reported, or that some of those 20 people would have a problem with it. 7 or 8 people I would say go for it, maybe even up to 10 at a push. But not 20+

Why do people think this is different to the 20+ people you’d be near in the pub garden 😂

As for toilets, are you planning to have a number of different toilets for your party, with regular cleaning by staff who have been trained in doing a proper job and a full risk assessment?

This made me laugh - the toilets in my home are far cleaner than any pubs or venues I’ve been to.

I’m going to have several groups of six round on the day but at different times. I’m still just as likely to spread/catch Covid, but at least I’ll be within the rules.

Could you give reasons why your birthday is more special than anyone else's?

What can I say - I’m just a whole lot more “speshul” than you

Covid aside, I think it's antisocial to have a party with 20 people in your garden. Unless your garden is huge and far away from other houses there will be so much noise for your neighbours.

I’m still just as likely to spread/catch Covid, but at least I’ll be within the rules.

But you are not. OK first visit Sat am person A has covid, passes it on to you and the other 4 people on Sat am. Sat pm, you caught covid this morning but it is still low numbers in your body, you are not contagious, five more friends come, you have fun, none of those five friends came with covid, you are not yet infections so they all go home fine. Ditto on Sun am and Sun pm, earliest you are likely to be contagious is Mon, probably more likely Wed or Thursday. Net result 5 more people have covid. Other scenario you invite 20 people all at the same time, person A is a superspreader and you and all your friends and family catch covid. That is why the risk is different.

Yes I think there would only be the same risk if it was actually the OP who has Covid, since she will still see everyone.

This made me laugh - the toilets in my home are far cleaner than any pubs or venues I’ve been to.

😂

Is this supposed to be a joke? Most people enjoy naturally pleasurable things more when they're breaking (minor) rules... with the extra frisson of 'naughtiness'.

Or do you not know anyone who enjoyed going out drinking and getting served booze in shops when they were 16 or 17? If your night of birthday fun required breaking major rules that society could not well survive without (e.g. killing someone, burgling a house, committing a sexual assault) then yes, people with a decent conscience would be wracked by guilt for the harm they had inflicted and not be able to enjoy themselves. Unless the plan is to intentionally spread COVID to people who are high risk for a serious course of illness for kicks, this is very much a minor illegality - indeed one involving normal social behaviour which is only restricted at all because of something which began 13 insufferably long months ago as an emergency public health crisis but is now well on the way to being contained.

I'd wonder how many of the 20 or so potential guests are fully vaccinated and if the others are planning to be tested ahead of the event. My approval would depend on this, but in no situation would I report such a gathering or recommend doing so.

At Christmas and New Year, many people I know had 10+ relatives and friends from multiple households over at once (and not outside in that cold!) and travelled up and down the country for this purpose. I considered that irresponsible, and selfish except for those who were at very high risk and spent the entire festive season at home with no visitors. But that was when cases were drastically higher threatening NHS capacity and we had no way of reliably safeguarding elderly and immunocompromised people or frontline health workers from potential death or severe illness. Now we are in a very different situation and I won't condemn someone for calculating that the reward of return to more normal social life outweighs the risk. Of course all of us are liable to be penalised if caught out of compliance with the rules- I do not claim anyone is "special" or "above the law", merely that as with many other laws and regulations that are not feasible to strictly enforce (except under a martial law type scenario), it is ultimately up to each of us to decide how strictly we adhere to it.

@Cattitudes oh that makes sense, thank you.

Yes I think there would only be the same risk if it was actually the OP who has Covid, since she will still see everyone.

I could do one of those home testing kits you can get - though not sure how reliable they are?

I thought you were going to say you wanted 7 people or something... but 20 is WAY over the guidance. Don't do it.

There have been lots of things during this time that don't make sense, but it doesn't mean everyone can just do what they want. It's allowed for a teacher to be in a room with children from 30 different households, but not to have any visitors in their own home, so would you think it's ok to ignore the restrictions and have 30 friends over for a party?

You sound a bit selfish tbh OP.

As PPs have said, everyone has missed out on things during lockdown. Should everyone just ignore the rules when they feel like it?

Even though you are outside, no doubt people will pass around drinks and things.

You should stick to the rules.

OP you clearly don’t understand the rationale for or science behind these rules and are embarrassing yourself.

• your toilets may start out cleaner than a pub toilet at the start of the day but unless you are going to clean every common surface every two hours using a rota it won’t end that way after 20 people touch it with their grubby hands after touching their mouths and noses....

• I went to a beer garden in Soho, London on Saturday and it was very controlled. Tables were spaced out, we could not walk around without a mask, cutlery and as clean and employees kept space and wore masks. you are seriously deluded if you think the same thing would happen in your garden party of 20....

• and as for your latest assertion that mixing in different groups of 6 over the weekend is just as risky - you clearly don’t understand how the virus works or incubation periods.

Ultimately you just seem to be a selfish person who needs to read a bit more perhaps

Why do people think this is different to the 20+ people you’d be near in the pub garden

1.Because these 20 people all know eachother and are therefore likely to get close to eachother.

1. Because tables are spaced apart in pub gardens with staff on hand to ensure social distancing.

2 differences off the top of my head.

Because those 20 people will not end up huddled together inside the pub if it rains?

@Confusedaboutlots hitting the nail on the head!!

The OP clearly has their mind made up and nothing posted on here will change it.

All I will say on the matter is, as someone working on the front line and seeing directly how this has affected people, I think you are incredibly selfish and to those who are condoning this behaviour, I ask that you educate yourself more as you're clearly lacking the knowledge on this virus.

People like you make me so angry that I am risking my and my family's health by working on the front line, for people like you to celebrate your birthday because you feel you are more important than the rest of us.

Go for it. Have a nice birthday

And you don't need to seek permission from a bunch of randoms from Mumsnet.

Just do you and have a nice time!

One or two extra maybe, but not that many.

I can understand you wanting a party, I had a "big" birthday last year, and in my previous relationship was always told I didn't like parties (long story) so it was my chance to celebrate freedom and have a party last summer. I had planned the location, guests etc but obviously it didn't happen. In the end I had a series of visitors in the garden throughout the day and evening, so we stuck to the rules and maintained social distancing. It ended up being a really lovely, special day, and I was able to chat to people far more than if it had been a party. The bonus of people only being there for an hour or two was that few of them needed the loo, and combined with having direct access into the garden made it feel as safe as it could be.

If my 6 year old can stick to the rules for his birthday, I think you bloody well can.

HTH.

@tappitytaptap

Why do people think this is different to the 20+ people you’d be near in the pub garden 😂

Well go book out the bloody pub then. Then there's no worries.

Oh wait, is there a reason why you might not do this?

@Sirzy

The chance may be tiny but for every person who takes that attitude overall it will increase the risk of another peak in cases.

If you do decide to do it then please make sure you let everyone who is going know so they can make their own choice. I wokld be pissed off if I went to someone’s believing it was within the guidance to find out they where blatantly ignoring it.

Good points

[quote ReginaaPhalange]@Confusedaboutlots hitting the nail on the head!!

The OP clearly has their mind made up and nothing posted on here will change it.

All I will say on the matter is, as someone working on the front line and seeing directly how this has affected people, I think you are incredibly selfish and to those who are condoning this behaviour, I ask that you educate yourself more as you're clearly lacking the knowledge on this virus.

People like you make me so angry that I am risking my and my family's health by working on the front line, for people like you to celebrate your birthday because you feel you are more important than the rest of us.[/quote]
Yes you are right that it is selfish.

People clearly don't realise / care they are putting others at risk by their selfish behaviour.

The difference with a pub garden (for those who don't seem to get it) is you would usually only have contact with staff in buying drinks and food whereas 20 people who know eachother are likely to be in closer proximity, passing drinks to one another, all touching same bottle of Coke etc.