Are ‘variants’ being used to keep us all frightened and compliant?

[Tonylepony]

Watched the Andrew Marrs show this morning and found the discussion on variants very reassuring and not what I’d expected at all. I’ve just been hearing so much about how the Indian and Brazil variants are mainly affecting younger people, we’re all doomed, some variants going to occur any day now that will completely evade the vaccine etc. I’ve honestly been feeling more and more depressed despite having had the vaccination. But it seems things might not be as bad as we’re being led to believe?

@frozendaisy The Times is my go to.

I used to love the Guardian and buy it regularly but I feel like it's becoming increasingly more sensationalist but with a left wing twist/viewpoint these days TBH.

Variants exist for many viruses and with covid we will see them too. I haven’t heard the government once use that as a scaremongering tactic. Even with the different variants already here in the U.K, I clearly remember being told in the briefing that there may be some evidence to suggest it was possibly more virulent, but even that was by a small percentage and not to worry as scientists were keep an eye on the situation. I think the “doomed” messages comes from forums/social media etc nothing to do with the message the government and scientists have been putting across.

@wheresmymojo

I can see why it feels like a conspiracy but it's just the unfortunate consequence of the world we live in at the moment.

This impact can be seen in all sorts of other areas, not just about COVID.

Under normal circumstances, I'd agree. Conspiracies are much harder to maintain than people think, although mass/ social media do make them easier to transmit. But on this occasion, there are actual minutes of government /Sage going back a year now that show that they have indeed set out to deliberately manipulate and create fear in the population to bolster compliance. I'm sure that such things have always gone on to some extent, but for the first time we see contemporaneous records of the government discussing how to manipulate the population. That genie is out of the lamp now and isn't going back in. So yes, I think that we are being manipulated into unwarranted fear of variants, whilst the government simultaneously continue to strip us of basic democratic and human rights - and those trying to protest that are being labelled a criminals and granny-killers.

@DenisetheMenace

It was reassuring. The basic gist was vaccines might not stop people catching Covid variants and transmitting the but they still make it unlikely that those people will develop severe illness or require hospitalisation,

This is how I saw it, I didn’t watch though so good to hear they said the same.

I’m glad I’ve had a vaccine though, if transmitting is higher as getting Covid is more likely.

@Tonylepony

Variants are bound to happen like flu or cold. Even if the vaccination isn’t as effective against them the boost to the immune system helps to prevent serious illness as with flu vaccination. There is no reason yet to think the Indian variants are a threat to us. There was more but can’t quite remember.

Yes, but also we're ignoring most of the Covid variants. The variants that are being talked about are largely the ones that are under investigation or have already been identified as a concern because we know they affect younger age groups, are more transmissible, have a higher fatality rate, or may evade immune response.

Nobody's talking about the thousands of mutations that have no effect on the virus, like the majority of cold and flu mutations. If we had similar mutations in flu to this, we'd absolutely be talking about it. Not least because it would mean we have 2 different pandemic viruses circulating at the same time.

Who was it saying this on Marr?

[quote wheresmymojo]@frozendaisy The Times is my go to.

I used to love the Guardian and buy it regularly but I feel like it's becoming increasingly more sensationalist but with a left wing twist/viewpoint these days TBH.[/quote]
I’d say the same about The Guardian during this, which is a shame as media tends to go right and the balance was useful.

Generally I find listening to experts speak the best, and also the most calming. You need a wide range though as you get used to their stance. Plus scientific reports can be good.

I agree with others that it's mostly media sensationalism rather than a govt 'conspiracy'. The govt might be happy enough for 'concern about variants' to keep us from getting too complacent but Matt Hancock has said there's no reason to panic because of the latest India 'variant' so I don't think they're driving this. It's mainly the media who, now that the initial emergency has passed, are looking for click bait. Scariants fit the bill nicely.

I think we all must remember matt Hancock announcing the Kent varient start December i think then things went bad very fast.
I watch dr Campbell on you tube and find it really interesting.
The Kent varient as now known started off really slow then steep rise .
So we dide not realise we had an issue until it was too late which is why we ended up with 3rd lockdown and them closing school again which is what they should have done in November .
Last July in uk we got so low.
Then we allowed foreign travel
Lots tourists brought covid back with them.
This also allowed the Kent varient to spread to Europe

Our borders are so slack we have over 500 cases south Africa in uk.
That won't be total number as we only genome sequence 10% samples.
We have some new British mutations

Because covid is low and vaccinations gone well its easy to become complacent.
But in the back of my mind I do worry about a different varient taking off as essentially just repeats the pandemic cycle and forces us back to restrictions, makes many poorer and disrupts education thats my biggest fear is the repercussions of a new wave.

Absolutely OP- variants or ‘long COVID’ are wheeled out when ever cases fall to keep people scared and compliant.

The ‘independent sage’ types that want permanent lockdowns announce then gleefully.

@Tonylepony

Variants are bound to happen like flu or cold. Even if the vaccination isn’t as effective against them the boost to the immune system helps to prevent serious illness as with flu vaccination. There is no reason yet to think the Indian variants are a threat to us. There was more but can’t quite remember.

The truth is somewhere between your first post and your second.

Variants ARE bound to happen, but the parallels with flu are once again totally absurd.

Effectiveness of vaccines as you probably understand, isn't a binary situation - it's not a case of they work, or they don't. Where variants matter is that they reduce efficacy.

Let's pretend that the UK ONLY ever had to deal with the Kent strain. We vaccinate everyone and then go back to normal. The vulnerable are protected right, so no problem?? Well the vulnerable have some protection, but many would still die. Their best protection this year has been avoiding contact - take that away and even at 95% protection, 5% will still die. OK, we decide we can live with that....

Now bring along a variant that drops that protection from 95 to 80% - four times as many die - maybe that becomes unacceptable??

So that's the first issue and note - we don't yet know WHAT protection the vaccines confer against serious illness from the variants of concern.

The second and more pressing issue is transmittability. We currently reckon the AZ vaccine prevents at least 50% of transmissions - effectively halving R among the vaccinated population. But we know with the SA variant, it's likely to have no effect. Ergo, if the SA variant or a similar one, takes hold here, then R will swiftly rise, leaving us with two options: lockdown until a booster program can be implemented, or let the virus spread unchecked, risking worse variants and potentially sending us back to somewhere close to square 1.

So if you're concerned about the variants because you think they put YOU at greater risk, you're worrying unecessarily. The biggest danger with them is that if they spread too extensively, the march out of lockdown will have to be delayed or even reversed until they can be brought under control again.

Because covid is low and vaccinations gone well its easy to become complacent.
But in the back of my mind I do worry about a different varient taking off as essentially just repeats the pandemic cycle and forces us back to restrictions, makes many poorer and disrupts education thats my biggest fear is the repercussions of a new wave.

Quite soon, all adults in Britain will be vaccinated. A 'variant' can only 'take off' if it significantly evades the vaccine, and none have shown evidence of being able to do so thus far.

@SpringTides5

Absolutely OP- variants or ‘long COVID’ are wheeled out when ever cases fall to keep people scared and compliant.

The ‘independent sage’ types that want permanent lockdowns announce then gleefully.

The opposite. Ignoring variants of concern and writing them off as scaremongering is more likely to end in lockdowns that taking the issue seriously.

Nobody wants another lockdown.

I don't think they are. the media can be a bit sensationalist about it all, but there will be new variants and they will need investigating, not ignoring.
I don't feel 'frightened' and compliance is rapidly falling anyway looking at what people post on here.

@Sparklingbrook

I don't think they are. the media can be a bit sensationalist about it all, but there will be new variants and they will need investigating, not ignoring. I don't feel 'frightened' and compliance is rapidly falling anyway looking at what people post on here.

Of course they need investigating - by highly trained experts, not headline grabbing journalists. Thus far, those experts mostly do not appear to be too alarmed by the latest 'double mutant' variant the media can't shut up about.

The variant of concern in Brazil said to be affecting young people more than previous variants is getting to younger people because they're more likely to be working directly with other people, are more likely to engage in riskier behaviour and haven't been vaccinated yet. The most elderly Brazilians have mostly been vaccinated.

Tim Spector had a webinar about the vaccines on the Zoe app a couple of weeks ago (I think - days drift into each other so I cannot be sure exactly how long ago it was). I was reassured by the experts on there, who said (among other things) that they are not that bothered about variants because there are only so many ways a virus can mutate before it renders itself incapable of infecting us. They seemed pretty confident that whatever vaccines we have will do a good enough job even if it's not ideal due to variants.

Variants exist for many viruses and with covid we will see them too. I haven’t heard the government once use that as a scaremongering tactic

The 19th December sensationalist press conference cancelling Christmas and France closing their borders to as a reaction to this leaving lorry drivers stuck??!! There was media coverage running for over a week in the runup to this intimating that this would happen. And threads running on this board "Has Boris got the balls to cancel Christmas" They often use the press to test public reaction.

@Moondust001 totally agree.

The psychological abuse the bullying and the gaslighting. The November lockdown was to enable people to see each other and have Christmas. And then come the 19th December there was the sensationalist press conference saying no, AFTER ppl had spent money on presents and food of course. People had also spent money on food for themselves and intended guests, So those intended guests wouldnt have had much in. So from the 19th onwards THEY had to go out and buy their own AS WELL. These tactics ensured optimum spend. It fucking well served them right when France reacted the way they did though. Though i felt sorry for the lorry drivers and their families. People do their pieces when they piss them about over holidays. So why the fuck is it okay to do it over Christmas. London and Essex went into tier 4 on the 19th December Im sick of being gaslighted over it

Covid is not some sort of made up rubbish to scare people and keep them locked up. If anything governments around the world can’t wait to open up and get the economies going.
Do you actually think furloughing people and subsidising them during this pandemic is something that governments are enjoying? The whole system is collapsing on us because of covid yet some people think governments are using this as an excuse to control us.
They can’t wait till we go out, work, and spend for goodness sake.

No. You're paranoid. No one likes this.

No. Dont be a dumb conspiracy theorist.

They can’t wait till we go out, work, and spend for goodness sake.

The climate change lobby want us to work but to take local leisure preferably bike rides and a packed lunch. International travel is out for ordinary folk as are private cars. There's a move to have people live very near work, so watch for a reversal of the move to the country. Agenda 2030 was all about concentrating the population in the cities in highrises so that greenbelts are left and maximised.

Sounds good if you give a fuck about the world your kids will have. And who wants to do long commutes?

@SpringTides5

Absolutely OP- variants or ‘long COVID’ are wheeled out when ever cases fall to keep people scared and compliant.

The ‘independent sage’ types that want permanent lockdowns announce then gleefully.

To what end though? What benefit is there to the public being scared and compliant?