CVT more likely caused by virus than vaccine

[acatcalledjohn]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-live-covid-vaccine-update-b1831744.html

Preliminary findings yet to be peer reviewed, but encouraging. It was on one of the many AZ clot fear threads on MN a few weeks ago I noticed a post from a GP who stated that she'd seen two cases of CVT last year in people that had had COVID, so she wondered (with a caveat that it was in no way scientific evidence) whether COVID could be the cause of CVT, rather than the vaccine.

Hopefully this is positive news and will encourage people to have the AZ jab should that be what's offered to them.

Here is a link to
"Cerebral venous thrombosis: a retrospective cohort study of 513,284 confirmed COVID-19 cases and a comparison with 489,871 people receiving a COVID-19 mRNA vaccine
Maxime Taquet, Masud Husain, John R Geddes, Sierra Luciano, Paul J Harrison"

osf.io/a9jdq/

@ConstantlyChanging

No, you’ve missed the point. The data for blood clots with Covid (and incidentally they’re not the same clots as they don’t come alongside low platelets so are easier to treat and less fatal) show that:

CVT occurs across the age range,” said Dr Maxime Taquet, co-author of the study and a professor of psychiatry at Oxford University. “There’s not an increased rate of CVT plus Covid in the younger patients. There’s just as many young patients as old patients.

Even spread. Whereas the post-vaccination clots seem to be occurring more predominantly in younger people and in women. This group is far less likely to die of ANY of the complications of Covid hence why on balance many, many countries think a more cautious approach to a vaccine that may harm them is necessary.

On top of that, about 2 weeks ago they said that there was no link, and in fact you were less likely to develop a blood clot after AZ. There were 5 cases. Now they say ok it is linked, there’s 79+ cases and 19 deaths, we didn’t know it would happen and don’t know why it is happening but it’s not as bad as Covid so you should all just be grateful. Well sorry but I’m not: I’m distinctly un-reassured because who knows what they’ll know/admit to knowing in another two weeks.

The data for blood clots with Covid (and incidentally they’re not the same clots as they don’t come alongside low platelets

Err - the low platelet count is the result of the clotting, not a secondary symptom.

It's like if you took a crowded supermarket and had half the people wandering the aisles all go and block off a couple of sections. You'd have a blocked off area (clot) and far fewer people left wandering around the rest of the supermarket.

Secondly
www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-04-15-risk-rare-blood-clotting-higher-covid-19-vaccines

Key passage
They report that CVT is more common after COVID-19 than in any of the comparison groups, with 30% of these cases occurring in the under 30s. Compared to the current COVID-19 vaccines, this risk is between 8-10 times higher, and compared to the baseline, approximately 100 times higher.

It couldn't really be clearer - the risk of covid producing CVT is 8-10 times higher in the

I don't consider it to be positive news either.

We already knew about the risk of blood clots from COVID 19 and evidence suggested the risk was higher than the risk from vaccination. It is just a step towards confirming that.

Positive news would be finding that there was no risk from the AZ vaccine, or that other vaccines have no risk, or understanding more about who is at risk and why, or is there a way to identify who is at risk.

Bookworm thanks. That's a very clear analysis above.

@bookworm1632 Are you the GP I referred to in my OP?

Err - the low platelet count is the result of the clotting, not a secondary symptom.

No it isn’t. It’s a very rare co-occurring symptom. It’s got caused by the clotting.

NOT caused that should say.

Err - the low platelet count is the result of the clotting, not a secondary symptom.

I do wonder why you are posting about this when you don’t seem to know the basics about the medical condition being caused by the AZ vaccine.

Err - the low platelet count is the result of the clotting, not a secondary symptom

That’s not my understanding. I thought the clots had been related to thrombocytopenia the other way round and compared to heparin (blood thinning medication) induced clots in conjunction with blood thinning.

@bookworm1632, no, that's not right - the adenovirus/DNA vaccines also lead to the person's own cells producing the spike protein.

In my understanding, there is very little available data on what predicts how much spike protein a person produces, how long the production lasts, or which range of cells is affected. If there are good papers which clarify this, I'd be very happy to see them.