Should I be worried about my Dad?

[Flowersinthewindowstill]

He had the Astrazeneca vaccine three weeks today and was very pleased to have it. He had a slight headache after it and said he felt extra thirsty, but that was all. For the last week he's felt unwell and says in the last few days he's really declined with shivering, all over body aches and pains, feeling sick etc.

He's not the type to ever go to the doctor and is almost never ill so I can't help being a bit worried. He's said if he doesn't improve by Monday he'll book Monday off and see a doctor. He's been wanting the vaccine since forever and now is actually saying he wishes he hadn't had it.

This is not to put anyone off the vaccine, but it's just out-of-character for him. For context, he's early 50s, has sleep apenea and uses testoreone gel, but no obvious underlying health issues.

I can't observe what he's like as I live 3 hours away. Hopefully it's nothing, but are side-effects several weeks after the vaccine normal or something to be concerned about?

I did a LF test two days ago when I felt the most rotten

LF tests are not for people with symptoms, you should have a PCR test.

Thanks Noble. That’s good to know.
I literally just have a headache. With a feeling of being under the weather. No temperature or shivering or cough or loss of taste

I agree with others that it’s unlikely to be the vaccination (his symptoms don’t particularly match any of the ones from official advice) but he does sound like he’s fighting some sort of infection. I also think he needs a covid test to at least rule it out because he needs to speak to a doctor too.

Can your mum get his temperature? Not covid or vaccine specific but if it’s too low I would be concerned about sepsis (

@tenlittlecygnets @Cheekyweegobshite

I have come across this recently so it's not as crazy as you might think. Certainly for the Pfizer vaccine there's a 'transient' drop in lymphocytes (transient meaning about a week) after vaccination which means that, as it's still too early for the recipient to have developed antibodies, they are particularly vulnerable to COV-SARS-2 infection. This could account for the numbers of older folk in care homes who've sadly become ill with Covid and died after receiving their first vaccine dose.

In the case of the AZ vaccine, there was also a report of a similar drop in neutrophils during the Phase 2/3 trials. So it's entirely possible, if this is true, that a person can be more vulnerable to getting Covid during that first week window after having a vaccine. All the more reason to keep on isolating and taking precautions until antibodies have developed after 3 weeks or so.

Pfizer:
www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2639-4

For AZ you'll have to go digging through the referenced links from this article.
www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n783/rr

[quote CrunchyCarrot]**@tenlittlecygnets* @Cheekyweegobshite*

I have come across this recently so it's not as crazy as you might think. Certainly for the Pfizer vaccine there's a 'transient' drop in lymphocytes (transient meaning about a week) after vaccination which means that, as it's still too early for the recipient to have developed antibodies, they are particularly vulnerable to COV-SARS-2 infection. This could account for the numbers of older folk in care homes who've sadly become ill with Covid and died after receiving their first vaccine dose.

In the case of the AZ vaccine, there was also a report of a similar drop in neutrophils during the Phase 2/3 trials. So it's entirely possible, if this is true, that a person can be more vulnerable to getting Covid during that first week window after having a vaccine. All the more reason to keep on isolating and taking precautions until antibodies have developed after 3 weeks or so.

Pfizer:
www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2639-4

For AZ you'll have to go digging through the referenced links from this article.
www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n783/rr[/quote]
The first article you cite states with regard to the change in lymphocyte levels "These laboratory abnormalities were not associated with clinical findings."

The second is a letter from a source I'll come back to later, and contains a certain amount of rather poor science. e.g.
"The ONS has reported that the proportion of adults who had no contact at all with over 70 year-olds rose from 83% prior to vaccine rollout to 90% during vaccine rollout, from the beginning of December to 8th February.[9] By 8th February 90% of the over 70s had been vaccinated.[10] It is hard to reconcile fewer people visiting the over 70 year-olds prior to 8th February with more over 80 year-olds having contact with others."

Nice cherry-picked choice of dates. It's pretty clear that the reason for the increased overall isolation during this period was the sheer number of infections! At the beginning of December the government was harping on about a normal Christmas. By the beginning of February, the message was "STAY HOME"! Set against this you have a lot of anecodotal evidence that fits perfectly with human nature, that people are seeing vaccination as a get out of the house free card.

There's a number of fallacies in that letter, so I looked up the source, Clare Craig. Oh dear - another nobody who's tried to make a name for herself as a covid denier ... 3 months back she denied the 2nd wave even existed. I'll leave this story about her here so people can decide for themselves:

www.jackiecassell.com/tag/dr-clare-craig/

Thanks for the advice everyone. He's been to the doctors and had bloods done. They came back clear and they don't think it's Covid, though he's ordering a test to rule it out for 100%. He barely leaves the house, and washes shopping etc. so it's not terribly likely he has it, though I know stranger things have happened.

One doctor he spoke to thinks it's a reaction to the vaccine, whilst the other said it was unlikely. He's got lots of muscle pain, like he's been exercising a lot (he definitely hasn't!), sore hips, light-headedness. He's having to take two weeks off sick. For a man who's barely taken a sick day in his life, this seems concerning

The Doctors have said if he's not improved in a week to go back, but I'm not sure what else they'll do.

The symptoms you mention do not in any way match the possible concerning side effects of the vaccine (related to possible blood clots) that may happen weeks later. They do match the kind of side effects that I know people have had almost immediately after the vaccine, usually just lasting a day or two. Sounds like he is a bit unwell at the moment. YANBU to be a bit worried, but YABU to link it to the vaccine.

@Flowersinthewindowstill - do you know what they tested his blood for? It could be lack of iron, calcium or vitamin D, did they check for all of them? Immune response to a vaccine can affect the body in similar ways to a virus where vitamins can get severely depleted.

Isn't it too late for an accurate covid test?
Presumably, if it is covid and he's not going out much, he caught it during the vaccine appointment.

Good the doctor's keeping an eye on him. I hope he gets well soon.