Italy has overtaken us on the death statistics :-(

[notagainmummy]

And eastern european countries are even worse hit. All so sad.

I believe it is the so called 'Kent variant' which ripped through the UK causing our second wave, is responsible. This pandemic is horrendous.
www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

I bet 18 months ago no one would have dreamed we would be comparing statistics on a pandemic and the whole world feels like they are living through a nightmare. I watched the BBC series of 3 progammes on the pandemic, and it was like being in some strange dream...but these things were really happening

@MrsFin

New Zealand is miles away from anywhere, with a population less than London's.

Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Japan. Not miles away from anywhere. Large populations. High density housing. They did the same sensible thing that New Zealand did. Strict border control and real quarantine.

Is Italy including deaths from covid after 28 days, unlike us?

As for believing that China has 3 deaths per million population and India has 133, what a joke
Why a joke? China enacted very strict border control and real quarantine. India had restricted borders too.

@Tealightsandd

As for believing that China has 3 deaths per million population and India has 133, what a joke Why a joke? China enacted very strict border control and real quarantine. India had restricted borders too.

And the Chinese government either locked people in their homes or took them to hospital if infected all by force....

RedMarauder Whereas the UK government sent covid positive patients into care homes full of sitting duck vulnerable residents.

No. But it does mean it was much easier to take precautions, and to police them. Or maybe more sensible precautions were taken
For example, there are no big cities where millions of people live and work in very close proximity. Really???
It's not a hub for international trade and tourism either. No, nobody ever comes here!!!!

The point the poster was making was that she thought whatever approach a country took their figures would level out and she was admitting that she was wrong. Maybe read the previous posts before making a comment which has nothing to do with what was being discussed.

No. But it does mean it was much easier to take precautions, and to police them. Or maybe more sensible precautions were taken
Bit of both perhaps.

For example, there are no big cities where millions of people live and work in very close proximity.
Really???^
Auckland 1.6m.
Christchurch 0.4m.
All NZ 5m
London 9.5m
I rest my case^

It's not a hub for international trade and tourism either. No, nobody ever comes here!!!!^
That's not what I said. I said it's not an international hub, which it isn't.^

Taiwan, Vietnam, South Korea, and Japan all more densely populated than the UK.

But separately, yes, you're right MrsFin The UK, London in particular, is overcrowded and a little bit too open.

The UK's terrible covid experience - the unnecessary number of deaths and unnecessary repeated lockdowns - are a harsh lesson learnt in allowing ourselves to be an excessively open international travel hub.

The choice is all ours. Nowhere particularly an island needs to be a hub. NYC usually is but they enacted border restrictions after they were hit like London so very badly at the start (domestic as well as international).

I read that 80% of people in Sicily refused the AstraZeneca because of the bad publicity. It’s even being refused by the over 60s who are now the only age group to be offered it!

[quote Baileysforchristmas]@DdraigGoch that’s fine for countries that record every death some countries don’t. India for example, so it’s very hard to compare access deaths

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-28228177[/quote]
No one was comparing with India. I think that we can trust the registration of births and deaths in western European countries to be as thorough as our own, even if different rules are used for specifying the cause.

Taiwan, South Korea, Vietnam, Japan.
@Tealightsandd all of whom are a very different culture to the west. They have experience of SARS so everyone from the government to Joe on the street takes measures seriously. People mask up there without needing to be asked, it's the cultural norm. Unlike the UK where everyone wears theirs under their nose.

We have the same culture more or less and same amount of experience as the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, and Iceland.

I agree it's embarrassing seeing so many people here wearing their masks under the nose. I have a massive urge every time I see it to yank it up! (I'd wash my hands afterwards).

No they haven’t. Even per 1m population we have more deaths when you use the comparable figures of over 28 days/mentioned on death certificates.

It’s awful that our variant is causing so much death elsewhere as well as here.

At least30,000 more are expected to die here after easing too. It’s awful all round.

@Bohemian18

I read that 80% of people in Sicily refused the AstraZeneca because of the bad publicity. It’s even being refused by the over 60s who are now the only age group to be offered it!

In fairness, they are still on the over 80s in Sicily (and many other regions) and they are automatically given Pfizer.

Just checking on lab.gedidigital.it which shows daily numbers and in most regions (obviously, given the age groups still being vaccinated) the majority are Pfizer or Moderna.

The AZ figures are probably higher than would be considered "normal" in any case as teachers and school staff were vaccinated as a priority a month or so back and were all given AZ unless they had specific pathologies which contra-indicated it.

It's still too slow a rollout obviously. Reading the Sicily press from last week, they STARTED vaccinating again last Thursday (over 80s) after more doses of Pfizer arrived.

MrsFin you can argue until you are blue in the face, but the fact is that the UK handled the pandemic appallingly, and that will be remembered in the history books.

I don't care how large a county is they can put procedures in place to limit the spread of a virus and the UK didn't. All the excuses in the world will not change that. I daresay if the NZ government had been in charge of the UK there would have been a different outcome.

@Geamhradh that sounds awful about schools. Is that all ages learning online? Are you a teacher?

[quote SwanShaped]@Geamhradh that sounds awful about schools. Is that all ages learning online? Are you a teacher?[/quote]
Yes, it's a nightmare. It has depended on regions, but here in Puglia the high schools have basically been closed for a year. They have remained open for students with SEN, and in September they all opened, with distancing, temperature checks, masks etc and (for me) it worked. Then the whole thing about school transport blew up, together with the second wave starting, so we were back online. After Christmas each family could decide to send the kids in or not. I have 11 classes and 3 of them had some students in school with the rest beamed in from home. That lasted about three weeks when the governor (who can override national policy) closed us again.
Nurseries (3-6 years) primaries (6-11) and first year middle school (11-14) have stayed open (to alleviate childcare issues) but this is still a region where a lot of women don't work so afaik, take-up has been low.
Other regions are slightly different depending on their "colour" and the governor's decision based on infrastructure.
The irony is all teachers have been vaccinated! And here I sit on my PC.Yrt the poor sods in the supermarkets etc who see hundreds of people every day haven't!

@Tealightsandd

We have the same culture more or less and same amount of experience as the Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, and Iceland.

I wonder how many Manx people went skiing in the Tyrol in February 2020. Sure, they implemented full border controls but that's somewhat easier when you only have one airport and one ferryport to monitor.

Unlike the UK where everyone wears theirs under their nose
Who's 'everyone'? 99.9% of the people I see are wearing masks correctly.

I honestly think we will need to wait a few years and look at 5 year death averages to actually see who has done well or not

Wow I didn’t know that about the schools there. Sounds so hard.

That was to Geamhradh