J&J vaccine reviewed over rare blood clot links

[Circumlocutious]

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-04-09/eu-regulator-investigating-blood-clots-after-j-j-covid-vaccine

Four serious cases of unusual clots accompanied by low blood platelets, one of which was fatal, have emerged after immunization with the J&J shot, the European Medicines Agency said Friday.

Adenovirus technologies such as that used by AstraZeneca and others have been associated with clotting in other settings, so if this is the reason for the rare side effects observed with the Astra vaccine, shots from J&J, Sputnik and Chinese drugmaker CanSino Biologics Inc. would also be at risk, said Sam Fazeli, an analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence.

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A shame as the one-shot J&J was positioned as the ideal vaccine for younger people. If this really is an issue with the adenovirus vector in general then the world will just have to reckon with the rare side effects (mRNA vaccines are not going to be globally accessible due to cost, transportation and storage difficulties).

Adenovirus technologies such as that used by AstraZeneca and others have been associated with clotting in other settings

This is an interesting statement considering this hasn’t been alluded to in all the furore I’ve read/heard around the AZ vaccine though I might have missed it.

Knowledge is power though isn’t it? Now we are aware of the types of clots that can be caused HCP’s are aware of what they should be looking for/ruling out. From what I’ve read the AZ clot is traditionally hard to diagnose so signs may have been missed numerous times.

Shame any sense of balance was chucked out the window by politicians and the media.

@Cornettoninja

Adenovirus technologies such as that used by AstraZeneca and others have been associated with clotting in other settings

This is an interesting statement considering this hasn’t been alluded to in all the furore I’ve read/heard around the AZ vaccine though I might have missed it.

Knowledge is power though isn’t it? Now we are aware of the types of clots that can be caused HCP’s are aware of what they should be looking for/ruling out. From what I’ve read the AZ clot is traditionally hard to diagnose so signs may have been missed numerous times.

Shame any sense of balance was chucked out the window by politicians and the media.

Have you read the rebuttal letter from doctors for covid ethics to the EMA, that talks about the spike protein being an issue.

Sorry I meant to quote the OP. @Cornettoninja

Ema apparently announced it on Wednesday that there had been 3 cases in USA. Tho today I’ve read it’s been 1 in trial and 3 post vaccine

And now over 200 fully vaccinated people in Michigan have caught covid 3 of which have died. Considering I’m in my early 30s I’m starting to feel very uncomfortable with the idea of being pushed towards having a vaccine.

@Jazzy1814

And now over 200 fully vaccinated people in Michigan have caught covid 3 of which have died. Considering I’m in my early 30s I’m starting to feel very uncomfortable with the idea of being pushed towards having a vaccine.

If you drill down into the storey most had only had one dose. It should have offered the protection of no death according to the authorities but old people are always at increased risk jab or not.

But I have pretty much 0 chance of dying from covid and children are even less at risk and yet we’re being practically forced to take a vaccine which every one argues wasn’t rushed but quite clearly was, you can throw all the money at it in the world but it was studying the effects over time it lacked. I’m not anti vax and have paid for vaccines before but I am so uncomfortable with this whole situation.

If the Adenovirus is the issue then that will bring the Sinovac into question too.

Interesting - the reason it failed trials for gene therapy

jvi.asm.org/content/81/9/4866

But the jabs should be intramuscular. How are they getting into the blood system if this is the problem?

Sorry for all the posts - reading, thinking, joining in all at the same time!

@Jazzy1814

But I have pretty much 0 chance of dying from covid and children are even less at risk and yet we’re being practically forced to take a vaccine which every one argues wasn’t rushed but quite clearly was, you can throw all the money at it in the world but it was studying the effects over time it lacked. I’m not anti vax and have paid for vaccines before but I am so uncomfortable with this whole situation.

Hang on, so you're quoting a story about 200 vaccinated people catching covid and 3 dying as a reason NOT to take the vaccine, but then insist you have 0 chance (rubbish) of dying if you caught covid??

Make your mind up!

@Cornettoninja

Adenovirus technologies such as that used by AstraZeneca and others have been associated with clotting in other settings

This is an interesting statement considering this hasn’t been alluded to in all the furore I’ve read/heard around the AZ vaccine though I might have missed it.

Knowledge is power though isn’t it? Now we are aware of the types of clots that can be caused HCP’s are aware of what they should be looking for/ruling out. From what I’ve read the AZ clot is traditionally hard to diagnose so signs may have been missed numerous times.

Shame any sense of balance was chucked out the window by politicians and the media.

I agree - can't quite believe that this hasn't been brought up before!

e.g. pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17148587/

Shame any sense of balance was chucked out the window by politicians and the media
Indeed. They instead opted for short term convenience of how to deal with a severe vaccine supply shortage.

The mind boggles at the panic over an extremely rare side effect that happens more commonly from covid itself (and long covid).

In a way these types of vaccines are giving you a mini form of covid. The people who suffered from this incredibly rare side effect are very possibly the same people who would have developed the issue from actual covid.

[quote btwwhichonespink]Interesting - the reason it failed trials for gene therapy

jvi.asm.org/content/81/9/4866[/quote]
As mentioned above, that paper looks at IV use of Adenovirus vector. AZ and other vaccines should not be getting into the blood stream but maybe it is in certain circumstances? Poor injection technique?

.

Poor injection technique?

Very interesting indeed Backyard72

Thanks for sharing the link btwwhichonespink

I recall that on another thread someone quoted a professor who was hypothesising that injection technique might be responsible for the blood clots. It led to some discussion of injection techniques on the thread in question.

@mustlovegin

Poor injection technique?

Very interesting indeed Backyard72

Thanks for sharing the link btwwhichonespink

I'm thinking of injections that hits a blood vessel rather than being intramuscular, which AZ should be - I think I'll ask the nurse to Aspirate the injection prior to delivery of my vaccine for my piece of mind - this is very simple and checks if a vessel has been hit or not.

@btwwhichonespink I read an article with a Dr hypothesizing that incorrect injecting technique could increase the risk of clotting if the underlying potential to clot was already there. Ie not doing it IM.

Actually it may even have been a thread on here where I saw it, can't remmber now. Many people were speaking of their experiences with IM vaccines being delivered like subcutaneous injections, and even nurses saying that is how they had been trained.

Poor injection technique is what they were investigating in Spain too (for the cause of the clotting issues with AZ).

Yes but that’s just blood clots, what about the multiple other side effects that have been reported and what about the ones yet to come?

I'm thinking of injections that hits a blood vessel rather than being intramuscular, which AZ should be

Yes, I hope they ask all vaccinators to take these additional precautions

I think I'm right in saying the AZ vaccine is being given in the upper arm?

This link indicates this might not be suitable for people who are very thin or have a very small upper arm muscle: www.drugs.com/cg/how-to-give-an-intramuscular-injection.html

Yes but that’s just blood clots, what about the multiple other side effects that have been reported and what about the ones yet to come?

Which multiple other side effects?

Chatting to a friend in the know earlier, seems low platelets is also a problem for Pfizer, but clots not seen as frequently (and AZ is extremely infrequent anyway). Perhaps points to something with the actual spike protein? Covid also causes low platelets and clots.

Her current hypothesis about young people being higher risk is to do with more active immune systems in younger patients, and that a lower dose might be preferable.