I've decided not to go ahead with my 2nd dose of the AZ vaccine. I'm happy having the Pfizer - will this be allowed?

[Ashleys63]

I've just lost all confidence in the AZ vaccine and regret having it at all.
I know the risks are tiny etc etc but I want a vaccine without these associated risks.
I'm 56 so in one of the top groups but just feel so uneasy about it all now.

@EasterIssland

Just a quick one I found

english.alarabiya.net/amp/coronavirus/2021/04/07/No-risks-in-COVID-19-vaccine-switch-after-first-AstraZeneca-dose-German-expert?__twitter_impression=true

@gamerchick that’s a ridiculous statement they’re doing it for safety reasons. Everyone needs to assess their own personal risk vs population risk. It’s a messy, difficult situation especially when there are safer vaccines (which unfortunately we don’t have enough of).

[quote Oaktree55]@EasterIssland

Just a quick one I found

english.alarabiya.net/amp/coronavirus/2021/04/07/No-risks-in-COVID-19-vaccine-switch-after-first-AstraZeneca-dose-German-expert?__twitter_impression=true[/quote]

1. Thats a German opinion, not an official line. And it certainly ISN'T the recommendation by EU authorities
2. Telling people to switch vaccines will almost certainly cost lives in the EU. There is a shortage of vaccine and any delay at a time when its facing a third wave is going to have disasterous consequences.
3. There is no actual research into whether this is a better/safer option than having a second AZ dose anyway! Its a complete gamble.

That way lies lunancy.

The EU have always been a bit sceptical of it

The European Medicines Agency's job is to be sceptical until they have evaluated the evidence supplied. Just like the MHRA or the DFA. EMA took slightly longer over evaluating the evidence for all the vaccines but all national equivalents put approvals processes on fast track due to the emergency.

Individual EU countries have different roll out programmes and priorities because they all run their own show. Some were initial cautious of the vaccines in age groups where no testing had been carried out (at that time).

it is possible to have a different second vaccine in the UK but its by exception and AFAICR only on medical advice. Other European countries and US states have mixed the vaccines by intent from early on because it may give better overall protection. There are trials going on to try and establish this but most of them are small for disaggregated data.

The data on the small number of clotting cases suggest a bias toward younger and female so it makes sense to take the precaution of directing them to a vaccine which currently doesn't show clotting in those groups. The risk also shifts in these groups for bad consequences of COVID. It also makes sense to give all patients vaccinated clear symptoms to look out for as early warning signs. It also reinforces the case for clearly disaggregated data.

FWIW OP, I'm a bit older than you, I had a grotty reaction to first round AZ but I'll still be bang on time to get my second jab because the risk from the jab is vastly less for me than the risk of the disease. My DC will look at the latest data when they get the call (if they have a choice of jabs).

A lot of the problems arise when governments want to give a simplistic message "its totally safe" when a very slightly more nuanced message prepares the public for the very tiny risk.

[quote Oaktree55]@gamerchick that’s a ridiculous statement they’re doing it for safety reasons. Everyone needs to assess their own personal risk vs population risk. It’s a messy, difficult situation especially when there are safer vaccines (which unfortunately we don’t have enough of).[/quote]
So it's a complete coincidence that Pfizer and Moderna have made billionaires but AZ is at cost with no profit?

Safety reasons my arsehole. The behaviour over the AZ has been appalling. Certainly not giving a toss about any citizens.

The EU (EMA) recommends the vaccine for all over 18.

So much misunderstanding & misinformation

I'd rather follow 4 million healthy people than be the first ever to mix vaccines ???
Read the science not daily mail

@nitsandwormsdodger There are currently trials going on for combining vaccines.

@RedToothBrush I think people need to give INFORMED consent re this tricky evolving situation. Too many experts are conflating common VTE with this rare autoimmune clotting. As I said the risk:benefit to each person will depend on their specific situation eg medical conditions/risk of exposure. There will be data forthcoming on mixing and there will be alternative vaccines later on. Whether it is worth waiting will be a v specific situation for each individual. To blanket say everyone should get AZ on 12 week appointment is not true.

Thanks @Oaktree55 I was mainly asking cuz Spain doesn’t know what to do .. according to Spanish mp they have tik end of may to decide despite they need to start vaccinating at the end of this month for second doses. This morning they were saying about leaving people with one jab without thinking all consequences (the vaccine hasn’t been approved as one dose. Even if it gives you a good immunity leaving over 2m people with one could have worse effects ) and the reports for mixing vaccines hasn’t came out yet so it’s also like playing lotto without knowing what the outcome could be. One option as of today isn’t better than another one really or safer

I'd rather follow 4 million healthy people than be the first ever to mix vaccines ??? Read the science not daily mail

Vaccines have been mixed since available in some countries and also in blind trials.

I don’t think you can have Pfizer for the second dose after the first dose of AZ. They work differently. However you can refuse to have the second dose altogether and then argue that you need a different vaccine for a booster ( if we will have boosters) .
I understand your concern about women/ men ratio with blood clots. Tbh I think the reason is obvious: social care workers, nurses and unpaid careers are mostly women. I’m in group 6 as unpaid carer for my disabled child, only one parent was able to get vaccination and obviously it’s me. And all our friends opted for mum to be vaccinated. So nothing strange in this ratio.

@EasterIssland it’s very difficult. What I take issue with is using population risk to advise on individual risk.

I’m not an expert but from what I’ve read obviously immunity won’t fall off a cliff at 12 weeks (although there will be people more in desperate need of the booster depending on age/medical issues)

I think people need to give INFORMED consent re this tricky evolving situation.

Yes that's true. So please refrain from spreading misinformation .

@Wakeupin2022 I haven’t spread any misinformation 🤔.

To blanket say everyone should get AZ on 12 week appointment is not true.

The JVCI have not said that. There are some (probably very small numbers) who should not get a 2nd dose.

If anyone thinks they may fall into that category, I would suggest contacting your GP in the 1st instance.

@Oaktree55

So EU is recommending everyone who got AZ first dose gets a different second dose. Not the advice here yet but may change. I suspect we don’t have enough to follow Europe who have more mRNA.

Trial ongoing re mixing in U.K. results summer.

oaktree what is this if not misinformation?

@Wakeupin2022 ok many EU countries. Advice may we’ll change here. There are trials ongoing data due June/July.

Anything else?

@Wakeupin2022 I think that was the recommendation from STIKO in Germany. Aren't they like the JCVI?

Thing is - if you’re mid 30s like me, you were unlikely to get very sick from Covid. If you’ve had one dose of AZ, like me, you’re presumably now even less likely to get very sick from Covid. Assuming all is well (I’m only 13 days on from vaccination but hope so) then I feel like walking away - not risking another AZ and certainly not risking the experimental mixing of vaccines - might be my best bet.

@Boringlynormal exactly my point. Individual risk needs to be assessed. For many taking AZ is better than not. For others their individual risk from covid is likely to be low.

I think in desperation to get this Pandemic over with people are forgetting individual risk:benefits.

Obviously at a population level vax everyone is preferred. I will consider my own risk:benefit before population thanks.

I doubt if you can mix and match, or even if you can have half of one doze then 2 of another. But speak to a doctor.

You aren't in the 'at risk' group. There was a good radio programme on R4 yesterday afternoon where the stats were discussed. 4 in a million (I think) is pretty good odds Vs the risks if you end up in hospital with Covid - my extremely fit niece (mid 30s) got infected by someone in her station (she was sick as a dog) and the one who infected her ended up in hospital on oxygen - he is also a firefighter, so not exactly old/weak/vulnerable.

I think you can have a bad reaction to everything medicinal that you can think of.

SAGE professors were on the news at lunchtime saying that clots are associated with the first dose. So if you didn’t have that reaction to the first dose, then you will be fine with the second dose. They also said you can’t mix and match as the vaccines work differently and that the risk of a clot is the same as taking a long haul flight.

weren't they saying that they couldn't really compare 1st and 2nd because far fewer have had the 2nd so far?

I did get a DVT on a long haul flight when I was in my 20s. I knew it was a possibility.