Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Original poster

Are masks here to stay in secondary schools?

111 replies

Tonylepony · 05/04/2021 19:19

My dc hate them but wear them without question. DS wears glasses which can be annoying as he does get issues with them steaming up but he rarely complains. I’m a little concerned about the summer when it gets hot as DD is prone to fainting. I remember Boris saying dc would be required to wear masks until Easter and it would then be reviewed, but I’ve not heard anything since. Anyone had an update?

OP posts:

Newgirls · 06/04/2021 18:04

Let’s not bother with the tests at all then 🙄

So are all the test doubters not doing them?! I’d be very happy to stop!

OverTheRainbow88 · 06/04/2021 18:07

@Newgirls

I didn’t say lets not test but the LFT are not as accurate as a pregnancy test and when people read mis information online it has an impact. So by reading you saying they are very efficient someone may do a LFT and not bother with a PCR test when they have symptoms.

wintertravel1980 · 06/04/2021 18:26

Infection rates in primary school kids (no masks, no testing of pupils) have risen by more than infection rates in secondary kids since schools returned.

I would treat the primary school numbers with a high degree of skepticism. Firstly, the confidence intervals are very large. Secondly, the numbers for the most recent period are less reliable.

Of course, all the zero Covid proponents on twitter immediately commented on the "rapid rise of infections in primary school aged children" last week but they have forgotten to mention what happened at the end of 2020. ONS results published just before Christmas appeared to indicate a spike in infections in primary school aged children (with a very large confidence interval and less reliable data for the most recent time period). The ONS graph was re-formatted (to make it look even scarier) and circulated all over social media with apocalyptic comments ("primary school children are Covid superspreaders).

Time passed. ONS data got updated. The graphs got revised. It turned out that in fact the level of infections in primary aged pupils before the year end was consistent with their parents. None of the twitter "zero Covid" enthusiasts bothered to update their followers. They moved on to look for new scaremongering information.

UnmentionedElephantDildo · 06/04/2021 18:29

I'm not a test doubter.

I do not want to see them represented as highly accurate, without proper evidence that they are that. As you have not provided a link showing then as good as HPTs, would I be right to assume you do not have one?

LFTs remain useful however in detecting asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic cases. Say you have a school with 1800 staff and pupils, and 10 of them are positive but with no symptoms. LFTs find only 50% (rounded down just for a nice round figure) of them, and that is heaps better than finding none (which is what you find if you don't test)

So yes of course I'm testing, because I think the benefits are important. But I'm realistic about their limitations, of which the false negative rate is a major one.

TimeForLunch · 06/04/2021 18:32

Disappointing news but sounds like they will most likely be scrapped as we start phase 3, so only about 4 weeks after they go back. I think it will make many not bother doing the tests twice a week to be honest.

Newgirls · 06/04/2021 18:45

I’m trying to add links!! Gov uk site has a March update saying they are 99% accurate. Huff post link is saying 90%. If you type in ‘are lateral flow tests accurate’ you can see the gov page. Sorry every time I link my post doesn’t appear.

Newgirls · 06/04/2021 18:48

Sun and daily mail have the accuracy as 50-70. I’d rather go with the Oxford and Liverpool research that says the tests are picking up over 90. Gov says 99.

CallmeHendricks · 06/04/2021 18:57

I think the 98% accuracy figure was one that was being bandied around back in January when Head Teachers were being "encouraged" by the Government to use it to reassure parents. I believe that figure was that if you had a positive, it could be relied upon to be pretty accurate, but that a negative result was only around 50% accurate.

noblegiraffe · 06/04/2021 18:59

Yes they were trumpeting specificity not sensitivity. Think they had to withdraw that advice to heads.

Newgirls · 06/04/2021 19:03

It’s on the site today!

We have such low numbers in our area it ties in with low numbers in the schools. Seems others posters are finding the same. Six tests can’t all be wrong 🤷‍♀️

noblegiraffe · 06/04/2021 19:06

Six tests can’t all be wrong

Yes, they absolutely can, because the results aren’t independent of each other. If someone incompetent does a test on themselves 6 times, then that’s 6 unreliable results.

Newgirls · 06/04/2021 19:08

Wow what a weird angle to take! The school tests were done by science teachers and doctors (it’s a very academic school with keen parents) and educated parents. So six tests seem very accurate to me!

I think some people want to find issues

CallmeHendricks · 06/04/2021 19:14

"I think some people want to find issues."

I think some people are determined to stick their fingers in their ears and only hear what they want to hear.

Graciebobcat · 06/04/2021 19:17

All restrictions on social contact are supposed to be removed in June so I hope they will go then and that they can have normal school for six weeks out of the last 12 months.

OverTheRainbow88 · 06/04/2021 19:23

@Graciebobcat

I thought that, but last night Johnson said “ Some resemblance of normality by June 21st ”. That freaked me out!

itsgettingwierd · 06/04/2021 19:25

I hope they do.

Purely based on the fact they expected the cases to rise quite a bit with schools returning and they didn't.

The thing they did differently was masks.

There's no evidence of causation or correlation but we know any other place you're inside with people it's required as a safety measure.

CallmeHendricks · 06/04/2021 19:30

Why are people so determined to believe that schools are safe and do not need any of the same mitigations in common use everywhere else?

itsgettingwierd · 06/04/2021 19:40

@CallmeHendricks

Why are people so determined to believe that schools are safe and do not need any of the same mitigations in common use everywhere else?

Because Boris used their taxpayers money on a PR campaign and said it's so

MrsHamlet · 06/04/2021 19:42

Why are people so determined to believe that schools are safe and do not need any of the same mitigations in common use everywhere else?
This baffles me, especially when elsewhere people are worrying about going back to their socially distanced offices.

noblegiraffe · 06/04/2021 19:45

I think some people want to find issues

I think some people don't like having it pointed out that they are making factually incorrect statements.

FrippEnos · 06/04/2021 20:12

noblegiraffe

I think some people don't like having it pointed out that they are making factually incorrect statements.

This has been the case all the way through this.

cantkeepawayforever · 06/04/2021 20:36

@Newgirls

It’s on the site today!

We have such low numbers in our area it ties in with low numbers in the schools. Seems others posters are finding the same. Six tests can’t all be wrong 🤷‍♀️

It depends what you mea by 'accurate'.

False positives are rare - so if the LFT says positive, it is very likely (well over 90%) that the result is correct.

False negatives are much more common. At a conservative estimate (different studies vary from 3% to 70% but the original research said around 40% if done by an adult trained by a video or leaflet), if you have Covid that would be detectable by PCR, 50% of the time your LFT will say you are not infected.

So if someone has Covid and tests 5 times on LFTs, there is a 3% chance that all 5 will give a negative result, purely based on statistical probability of false negatives. Or, if you like, if 100 people who have Covid all do 5 Covid tests, for 3 of them all will be falsely negative,

noblegiraffe · 06/04/2021 20:48

And if the person doing the test is incompetent, cant (and even the school tests are self-administered by a child, which isn't ideal) and had a 3% chance of picking up an infection (as in the Liverpool study of students found), then there's an 86% chance of all 5 tests being negative despite the person being positive.

BustopherPonsonbyJones · 06/04/2021 20:52

@MrsHamlet

Why are people so determined to believe that schools are safe and do not need any of the same mitigations in common use everywhere else? This baffles me, especially when elsewhere people are worrying about going back to their socially distanced offices.

I would agree with both of these posts. If I didn’t genuinely feel worried, why would I want to wear a mask in school? No one is enjoying the experience, children or adults. Hopefully, vaccinations will be the way out if this. I’m not placing my faith in the tests.

louleey · 07/04/2021 07:25

@Whatelsecouldibecalled

God I hope not. I’m a teacher and hate it with a passion. I can’t hear the kids at all. Discussion is so tricky. I hate teaching from the front. I feel like we are all miserable. I can’t see them smiling they can’t see me smiling (those plastic square ones are next to useless just fog up instantly). It doesn’t make me feel safer in the slightest. The kids have been so good on the whole wearing them and just cracking on but honestly I can’t wait to get rid. They are pointless.

So nice to hear a teacher with this opinion! I think it’s absolutely horrific putting children in makes all day long

Flip

1 2 3 4 5

Swipe left for the next trending thread