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Airline crew - what are you doing at the moment?

29 replies

squashyhat · 05/04/2021 09:26

Genuine question. I live near Gatwick, and plane movements have gone down from one every 5-10 minutes (depending on wind direction) to one or two a day. I have just looked at Flightradar and there is one plane leaving for Belfast and that's it. I know planes are still flying cargo and some passengers but there must be thousands of flight and cabin crew who aren't needed. Are you on furlough? How are you keeping your hours up?

OP posts:
Supersalty · 05/04/2021 11:15

At my DH airline they are on a flexi furlough so work the odd day, but majority haven’t flown in months. They are doing retraining every 90 days to keep their license up. Just praying they will all have jobs to go back to, the last year has been incredibly tough for all involved in the aviation industry. They have been forgotten about by the government.

EasterIssland · 05/04/2021 12:46

Hope flights start going back soon! I love travelling and feel so sorry for all those in the travel industry and how they’ve been forgotten and how some people keep asking to close borders without thinking about the impact

notimagain · 05/04/2021 13:20

Many of my former colleagues are in exactly the situation described by Supersalty - minimal flying and/or cycling through retraining process every two or three monts.

Talking to some them (as I still do) it's clear there's a lot of stress about...I realise I was lucky to be able to exit the industry last year, slightly earlier than planned relatively unscathed.

squashyhat · 05/04/2021 19:54

Thanks for your replies. I do think the industry has been forgotten and I really hope it can get back to some semblance of normality soon. I miss travelling and can't wait together on a plane again.

OP posts:
SunbathingDragon · 05/04/2021 19:59

Furlough for most I know. I work as air repatriation, except my job usually relies on holidaymakers/extreme sportspeople having injuries abroad and that’s not (legally) happening right now.

RuleWithAWoodenFoot · 05/04/2021 22:34

The way people speak, every industry/group of people/generation has 'been forgotten about'. If you're on furlough, you're quite literally NOT forgotten about.

ImInStealthMode · 05/04/2021 22:40

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot Furlough doesn't apply to millions of people around the world who rely on the travel industry, particularly in developing countries. I think it's those people who are forgotten when we talk about holidays not being essential, and waiting another year not being a big deal.

2 years of no income is an extremely big deal for many.

Twilightstarbright · 05/04/2021 22:41

A friend is short haul cabin crew. She's on furlough and is doing cakes for friends and family birthdays to keep entertained/learn a new skill. Praying she has a job to go back to mainly.

windywally · 05/04/2021 22:46

I am a nurse assessing in large Covid vaccination clinic , we have some cabin crew vaccinating on a band 3

llm24 · 05/04/2021 23:08

@RuleWithAWoodenFoot

not many industries I know of over the last year have made no money what’s so ever and with no return date yet it’s going to be a long road for the travel industry

Honeyroar · 05/04/2021 23:14

There were 10,000+ cabin crew working for my airline. About 4000 of us took redundancy. About 80% of those that remained are still furloughed. Many doing second jobs to try to top up wages.

HCHY4 · 05/04/2021 23:14

How are pilots coping with the huge income drop if on Furlough? Presumably they have larger mortgages etc than average etc.

Honeyroar · 05/04/2021 23:18

Pilots have come out of it slightly better. Their conditions haven’t permanently changed, unlike cabin crew’s conditions. Plus most people’s outgoings are relative to what they earn. So pilots aren’t in a worse position, quite the opposite (at the airline I worked for). Those on lower wages are hit the hardest because there’s no wriggle room when it comes to downsizing or tightening your belt.

backinthebox · 05/04/2021 23:51

@HCHY4 the bottom has basically fallen out of the industry. Of the 7 different fleets in the airline I work for, one fleet was shut down permanently. Those pilots are either undergoing retraining onto another fleet, or waiting for their turn to retrain but remain grounded for the time being. 2 fleets are grounded for the foreseeable future, but with the hole they may come back one day. Those pilots are also grounded. The remaining 4 fleets are operating approximately 7% of the flights they were doing before Covid. I am on the busiest fleet; each month we ‘bid’ for work, with a typical pilot getting 4 or 5 long haul trips in a normal month, but now there are not enough trips remaining for every pilot to get even the bare minimum of work to keep within the minimum of ‘recency’ ie 3 take offs and landings every 90 days, so we are regularly going into the simulators to keep our recency up.

WRT pay, my company famously declared at the start of the pandemic that they did not need help from the government as we were in good financial shape, so it did not take furlough for it’s staff to start with. Shortly after that, it made redundancies and such is the nature of the career that we agreed to take a huge pay cut to protect our company and as many of the jobs as possible - we figured it was better to keep as many pilots on as possible even if it meant reduced wages all round. We took a 50% cut in our basic pay for 3 months, then another 6 months at 20% reduction, and we are currently at about 10% reduction. We are normally paid a proportion of our salary as basic pay and the remainder as variable pay based on our flying hours - with almost no flying there is almost no flying pay either. Hundreds were made redundant anyway, many of them still with massive training loans to pay, and there is a pool of unemployed pilots being kept afloat by those who do still have jobs, although pilots are resourceful and have set up a range of businesses and taken on a wide variety of jobs to tide them over.

The trips we are doing are strange ones. I have flown aircraft with no one on except the pilots, and it is rather weird and a bit scary at the back of a pitch black aircraft at night when you do the fire watch walk! We have carried a lot of freight - everything from PPE or medical supplies to fruit and veg. Much of the fresh fruit and veg in the uk in our winter is flown in. I’ve also done some repatriation flights earlier in the pandemic. We are still flying passengers to some destinations atm, but they are mainly travelling for either work reasons or for personal essential reasons, for example on one flight to the Caribbean recently we had fewer than 30 passengers and they included a team of marine engineers, a group of scientists travelling to conclude a research project, and a family going to a funeral. No holidaymakers even on what would normally be deemed a holiday flight, and instead of 6 trips per week to that island which would all normally be full, there was only 1 flight. The public get cross if we carry out flights with passengers, but also get cross if we cut off a route altogether too.

I’ve had a couple of trips to destinations that have handled Covid well, where after at least one and sometimes 2 negative Covid tests within a 24hr period we are free to move around the destination, and those have been a lovely, very welcome escape. Most of the places I am going atm though, fall into one of 3 categories - confined to hotel grounds, strict room confinement, or a there-and-back. The there and backs are exhausting, and need 5-8 pilots on them. They are to places where pilots are not allowed to get off the aircraft and have to come straight back such as China or South Africa. It messes with every bit of you physically to be at work for about 30 hours in such an uncomfortable work environment, and the CAA is monitoring it closely. The hotel confinement is OK, depending on the hotel. I spent 5 days in the Middle East in a hotel we could not even go outside from, and had only the option of staying in our 12ft square room with the view of the back of a hangar from our window or sitting in the ‘vip lounge’ which was a table and chairs in the lobby surrounded by a Perspex screen. The strict room confinement is just about tolerable for 24hrs but beyond that messes with your head. Some pilots have tested positive downroute and been taken away to hospitals - there have been some very scary stories, one in particular where a pilot was kept prisoner in China for being 0.1C over the acceptable temperature and it was a fight to get them released even though they had 9 very invasive Covid tests which all came back negative. I am not sure the company or the British government would have much luck getting someone back if certain foreign authorities decided they needed to make an example of someone!

It’s a far cry from the job I signed up for, but I am grateful to still have a job. All of us though are looking forward to a time we can travel again, even though I suspect Covid means aviation will never really return to what it was.

EasterIssland · 05/04/2021 23:57

Really useful and interesting information @backinthebox!

Hope things go back to normalish soon! Would like to fly 3 times this year so would be happy if I managed to do 2 trips :)

JustAnotherBrick · 06/04/2021 00:45

DH was made redundant from Gatwick after being there many years. It was his dream job and he wanted to be there until retirement. He is still really depressed over it even though he’s been in a different job for almost a year now. Almost none of his colleagues still work there. It’s tragic and has affected thousands. It’s not just the flight crews, it’s all the maintanance staff, passenger services, security etc.
I really hope the job exists again one day but no sign yet.

Supersalty · 06/04/2021 07:11

But it isn’t just about furlough @RuleWithAWoodenFoot. If the airlines collapse, then they will take down many other companies with them because they are simply the face of an enormous industry. My DH is based at Luton and the airport is the towns biggest employer, so think about how many people could end up unemployed. Why is it that train companies are getting huge government grants to stay afloat and airlines are getting loans. At some point the man in number 10 became an eco warrior and decided aviation doesn’t fit with his green agenda- that’s right, the man who supported a new runway at Heathrow and wanted to build an airport in the middle of the Thames. As a PP has said, a lot of food and other goods are imported by air, so who will bring it here if no airlines exist to bring cargo.

We are very lucky because I work for a pharmaceutical research company who is doing really well out of all this so I’m able to top up what DH has lost, but we know many who are struggling financially. Many young pilots who had only started recently are having to sell their homes, cars etc to pay the bills. We also know a couple of people who have taken their own life.

I hope your DH is ok @JustAnotherBrick, and hope one day he can get back to the job he loves soon.

Sansaplans · 06/04/2021 07:13

@windywally

I am a nurse assessing in large Covid vaccination clinic , we have some cabin crew vaccinating on a band 3
My friend is cabin crew and has been working as a HCA throughout, and has now moved to doing vaccines. She has loved it, despite the crap circumstance she is really pleased it pushed her to try something new, and is looking to apply for nursing.
notimagain · 06/04/2021 08:05

@backinthebox

Excellent post, ties in 100% with what I've been hearing (...glad you mentioned the point about the pilots at that particular airline Wink taking a pay cut to help support others).

@Supersalty

Many young pilots who had only started recently are having to sell their homes, cars etc to pay the bills.

For those that aren't in the know - as BintheB mentioned there'a a whole tranche of (generally younger) pilots who are still repaying loans of perhaps 100k plus that were taken out in order to pay for training courses to "live the dream". In many cases parents helped out by taking out a loan/second mortgage secured on the family home....

Doing so was always a gamble - those of us who had been around the industry for a few years knew how volatile the industry could be and the risks involved in doing that but I don't think anybody foresaw a collapse on this scale.

The result has already been catastrophic for some families.

Racoonworld · 06/04/2021 08:35

These industries haven't been forgotten about, it's just there's no good solution is there. We can barely open up internally at the moment, so there's no way we will open for travel properly any time soon. As much as I'd like to travel (I have families in other countries) it just isn't going to happen. This is going to have repercussions for years for the industry, it's awful.

notimagain · 06/04/2021 09:17

We can barely open up internally at the moment, so there's no way we will open for travel properly any time soon

Problem the UK airlines seem to have is that everybody seems to equate airlines with people travelling....but especially the long haul fleets, there is much more to it - they're also a strategic asset, especially at the moment, but UK Gov doesn't seem to want to acknowledge that fact..

I suspect I worked at the same airline as a few of the posters above and even before Covid it was not unusual come back from places such as Bangalore or Shanghai with several hundred passengers and tonnes plus of pharmaceuticals that needed transporting to the UK/Europe quickly.

In the last year, again as mentioned by others above some crew and others have worked some fairly horrid shifts helping fly PPE and drugs back to the UK....

Yet pretty much everytime the airlines get mentioned in the media there's a rolling of eyes, tutting about airports and grumbling about holiday makers.

I see Air France have just had 4 Billion euro of aid approved because they are seen as a strategic asset.

OTOH for many, especially politicians, it seems the likes of BA and Virgin are liability...not to be talked about..

Mr Shapps, yes, I'm looking at you.

Loveisthehope · 06/04/2021 09:27

I knew someone who was a pilot and about to put their son through pilot training. I'm not in touch now but keep worrying and wondering as to what they will do Sad

mocktail · 06/04/2021 09:41

Pilots have come out of it slightly better. Their conditions haven’t permanently changed, unlike cabin crew’s conditions. Plus most people’s outgoings are relative to what they earn. So pilots aren’t in a worse position, quite the opposite (at the airline I worked for). Those on lower wages are hit the hardest because there’s no wriggle room when it comes to downsizing or tightening your belt.

But furlough is capped at something like £2500 a month, so it stands to the reason that the highest earners have lost the most pay.

EasterIssland · 06/04/2021 09:43

@mocktail

Pilots have come out of it slightly better. Their conditions haven’t permanently changed, unlike cabin crew’s conditions. Plus most people’s outgoings are relative to what they earn. So pilots aren’t in a worse position, quite the opposite (at the airline I worked for). Those on lower wages are hit the hardest because there’s no wriggle room when it comes to downsizing or tightening your belt.

But furlough is capped at something like £2500 a month, so it stands to the reason that the highest earners have lost the most pay.

exactly, unless airlines are topping up their salaries (which I doubt) if a pilot was earning 5k for example and had a mortgage/ debts/cars depending on that salary... they'll have had a big drop
HCHY4 · 06/04/2021 10:58

@backinthebox

Thanks for the reply. Really insightful. I hope things improve for you soon.

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