What the doctor who found the link between blood clots and the AZ vaccine wants you to know

[Frequentflier]

www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/what-the-doctor-who-found-the-link-between-blood-clots-and-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-wants-you-to-know-1.5370015

Useful read.

Thanks, very useful and reassuring.

I wish he'd said what the risk factors were.
If there's now a screening test presumably they wouldn't give it to everyone having the vac, just those who might be at risk of getting the clotting reaction.

@Frequentflier Thank you for sharing.

For those who are interested in more in-depth information, this professor's scientific publication (a case report) can be found here :

www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-362354/v1

Thank you

He'd have said what the risk factors are if he knew. He says research is ongoing to try to find out.

Yes, reassuring at a population level. Not so reassuring on a personal level if you happen to have those certain ‘unknown as yet’ risk factors though. Hopefully they get some answers soon and can find a way to identify the more at risk people.

If something is a very small risk at a population level I never believe I am the special snowflake that has the problem

If I do and it goes tits up, well my number was up at that moment

I am not living in fear of minuscule risk

I don’t think it’s about being a ‘special snowflake’. Lots of drugs/medical treatments are now only offered to people based on their genetics. If we have that information it makes sense to use it to identify those for whom the risks might outweigh the benefits.

@bumbleymummy - Lots of drugs/medical treatments are now only offered to people based on their genetics

This sort of thing is actually still very rare in medicine. It the future - this approach holds a lot of promise. But it's still very rare.

And of course, you have no way of doing this if you have no idea what genetic variants make people particular vulnerable to a side effect of a new drug.

It’s such a shame this has become such a political football.

I really hope that AZ is found to be safe and any risk factors identified (not least because my DP and DF have had it!) because it’s looking like one of the best candidates to distribute in developing countries. But it’s also right that if it’s safety is called into question that’s investigated thoroughly.

Imagine how different life might look right now if China had been as quick to react to concerns their doctors raised.

Hmm - the truth is being stretched a bit there.

While both Greinacher and Holme believe that the vaccine is the most likely culprit for the clots, which is possibly due to an autoimmune response, none of this is proven yet as Greinacher admits in the above article.

But you never see probable/possible/maybe in headlines lol.

@Cornettoninja

It’s such a shame this has become such a political football.

I really hope that AZ is found to be safe and any risk factors identified (not least because my DP and DF have had it!) because it’s looking like one of the best candidates to distribute in developing countries. But it’s also right that if it’s safety is called into question that’s investigated thoroughly.

Imagine how different life might look right now if China had been as quick to react to concerns their doctors raised.

Imagine how different life might look right now if China had been as quick to react to concerns their doctors raised.

What do you mean?

@bookworm1632 when doctors in wuhan raised the alarm about the numbers of patients they were seeing with a specific kind of respiratory issue it was initially suppressed - partly due to china’s overly complicated hierarchy and bureaucracy.

I don’t really agree with how concerns over AZ have been handled, particularly by the media, but if we’d had this kind of level of seriousness right at the beginning of all this certain decisions made at different points could have led us down a very different path.

@Cornettoninja

When was this? Do you have a source? Thanks

It's interesting that they refer to 'the link', as if it's definitely proven to be the vaccine that causes it. And even the way the describe the possible reaction in the article makes it seem very definitive that that is what is happening, and I didn't think anyone was as certain as that.

[quote bobbiester]**@bumbleymummy* - Lots of drugs/medical treatments are now only offered to people based on their genetics*

This sort of thing is actually still very rare in medicine. It the future - this approach holds a lot of promise. But it's still very rare.

And of course, you have no way of doing this if you have no idea what genetic variants make people particular vulnerable to a side effect of a new drug.[/quote]
It’s more common in some areas than other, eg cancer treatment.

@bookworm1632 - sure www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-55963896.

It’s been very widely reported on so do have a google. Admittedly it’s been very twisted up with conspiracy theories and political debates involving the WHO , but initial concerns weren’t treated with the seriousness they should have been. That does have the luxury of retrospect but I think the point stands. There was alarm amongst a small set of medics internationally very early on.

Well if we all had time machines we'd all do things differently. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

@MrsTerryPratchett

Well if we all had time machines we'd all do things differently. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Hindsight! That’s the word I was looking for - not retrospect!

And yes I agree but I’d still rather drugs/vaccines were treated with caution and investigated when concerns are raised. I’d quite like the media and politicians treated with as much caution too...

[quote Cornettoninja]@bookworm1632 - sure www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-asia-55963896.

It’s been very widely reported on so do have a google. Admittedly it’s been very twisted up with conspiracy theories and political debates involving the WHO , but initial concerns weren’t treated with the seriousness they should have been. That does have the luxury of retrospect but I think the point stands. There was alarm amongst a small set of medics internationally very early on.[/quote]
I'm aware of various conspiracy theories, none of which I pay any attention to.

International medics?? That doesn't even make sense - how would China stop a medic in a different country from raising an alarm??

And what time period are we talking about? When did this alarm occur? I'm aware of a claim the epidemic started far earlier than claimed, but AFAIK all these reports have been thoroughly debunked.

Where have ‘all the claims’ of the pandemic starting earlier been debunked? How much earlier are we talking? December 2019? November 2019? August 2019?

How does the sentence ‘medics internationally’ not make sense? There were medics (does the phrase doctors work better?) talking about this late December 2019/early January 2020 as reports were coming out of China. Dr Wenliang’s social media posts were distributed and translated widely throughout the internet gaining attention from medics globally. Granted, not in large numbers, but large enough that there were enough people who knew what was happening to question why no one put travel restrictions in place for the Chinese New Year.

What kind of source would actually be acceptable to you?

@Cornettoninja

Where have ‘all the claims’ of the pandemic starting earlier been debunked? How much earlier are we talking? December 2019? November 2019? August 2019?

How does the sentence ‘medics internationally’ not make sense? There were medics (does the phrase doctors work better?) talking about this late December 2019/early January 2020 as reports were coming out of China. Dr Wenliang’s social media posts were distributed and translated widely throughout the internet gaining attention from medics globally. Granted, not in large numbers, but large enough that there were enough people who knew what was happening to question why no one put travel restrictions in place for the Chinese New Year.

What kind of source would actually be acceptable to you?

Interesting tone to take when I was only seeking to find out what you were referring to.

I wondered if it was Dr Wenliang or something earlier.

Dr Wenliang actually reported new cases of SARS on the 30th December, not a new virus. The authorities announced the outbreak the following day (31st December) and the WHO were notified. The US CDC also discovered the outbreak on this day.

At this point in time, given theat there were just 27 cases and no sign of H2H transmission, a lockdown would have been ridiculous!

Dr Wenliang actually added nothing to the discussion - his treatment by the authorities was of course awful, but that's a completely different issue. The narrative that he was trying to alert the world and it was covered up is patently false when you look at the dates of what occurred when.