GP's please why are you not back to seeing us face to face

[whenwillthemadnessend]

Just that really ?

Please can any GP's explain the reasoning

If dentists physios and accident and emergency doctors can see people why can't GP doctors?

Our GP is like getting into Fort Knox. When you get a GP on the phone they are all business no relationship. Pretty much barking at me for what I needed. A friend with an extreme health issues has resorted to going to A&E as our GP won't see her. Everything is on the phone. I was able to see a specialist nurse for a smear test but not for an ongoing issue.

DH is a lawyer; I am a director in a public sector organisation. DH worked 60/70 hour weeks for 20 years. I regularly work 50/55 hour weeks and have had to make nearly 100 people redundant in the last 9 months. No payrises for our staff - less than 1% before Covid. Minimal security.

I am afraid Parker my heart really doesn't bleed too much for the GPs. One would honestly think they were the only people in society who had to do a hand's turn. The average salary at my GP practice is about £85k. Not one of them works full-time at the practice - most of the partners also do a couple of GP clinics per week at the local private hospitals.

The NHS has been bloody awful for many years , so it comes as no surprise to read about people being fobbed off by GPS.. even before covid I was waiting weeks to see a GP so by the time you get seen either the issue has gone, got so serious you have to call an ambulance or killed you.

NHS dentistry... does it even exist to any half decent standard? I've been private for years

@Parker231 - I'd like to think that people will realise one day that underfunding = no appointments, hard to get through, no GPs = the staff that are there burn out and leave.

DH will be running vaccination clinics on Easter Saturday and out of hours on Easter Sunday. It literally doesn't stop.

[quote Darkbrownistheriver]@Parker231
The problem is simple - there aren’t enough GP’s for the population. The population has increased but the number of GP’s has decreased. Going forward wait times for appointments will increase. When you ring up for an appointment and there aren’t any, it’s not because the GP doesn’t want to see you but because there are no appointments left

This. I’ve been working in general practice (admin not clinical) for 20 years. There are good GPs and bad, just like all professions, but the main fact is there aren’t enough. There aren’t enough hours in the day for them to do all the things they are now expected to do. As someone unthread pointed out, they are private businesses but that doesn’t mean they can do what they like - there are very strict rules for referrals for instance as someone mentioned re tonsillitis.

For those asking why GPs were avoiding seeing patients while teachers had to go ahead, it is a very different scenario. A GP who has unknowingly contracted Covid seeing 30 people (many of whom will be extremely vulnerable) could make those people very ill indeed, plus their families. Most older surgeries are very cramped (my desk is a couple of feet away from three other people) and it’s very difficult to socially distance so they could quite likely to infect colleagues - if everyone goes down with Covid or has to self-isolate, the surgery has to close and nobody would be seen, phoned, prescribed medicine, referred. There are contingencies in place for this, but if it happened widely it would have been disastrous for patient care.

The situation has now improved and we know much more about Covid, plus the vaccination programme is going well. Hence, they are seeing more people. The phone consults will continue at our surgery though as MOST of our patients prefer them.

I wonder how many of the people complaining on here have volunteered to help with their local vaccinations centres, many of who are desperate for people so that all those maligned receptionists and admin staff don’t have to give up all their weekends. They may be getting paid for it, but it’s standard (bad) rate and the vast majority would much prefer to be at home with their families. They don’t HAVE to do it by the way - they volunteer.[/quote]
GPs are paid good money to actually provide a service to their patients and when those patients don't receive the care they should, are entitled to complain without being told to " volunteer as vaccinators "

@RosesAndHellebores - I think the point we're trying to make is that if GPs leave, it's the patients that lose out. Which is what is happening. There is a massive GP shortage. If it's such a cushy job, why do you think that is?

Mine was bad enough even before Covid (not just my opinion, they have a bad reputation locally among pharmacy staff too) I’m dreading it now I’ve had pretty major panic attacks, some bladder issues, and also symptoms of early menopause, but I don’t even know if I can face phoning, and then I’m worried reading threads like this labelling people as ungrateful or time wasters..

@Heathermary1995 - what do you suggest the GP tries when there are too many patients that want appointments and not enough appointments? Genuinely interested.

GPs are funded based on:

each patient attending 3-4 times per year on average
each patient getting 2 home visits in their lifetime, one to certify their death

The average patient attends approximately 7 times per year.

Essentially, General Practice funding is a relic from an age when each practice had fewer patients per GP, less could be done for them (essentially penicillin, painkillers, sedatives) and they died younger, having seen a lot less of their GPs en route.

If you can explain how that is meant to compute I'm sure that GPs would be genuinely grateful.

Roses - DH would have been delighted to only work 60 hours a week for the last 20 years. He doesn’t do any private work - 100% NHS. He doesn’t think he is a hero (although I do as do many of his patients). He is just an excellent GP looking after his patients week in, week out.

He is looking forward to his new career, back in his home city of Quebec. We were always going to leave the U.K. due to Brexit but after what DH has been through in the last year, we just need travel to open up again so we can organise our move. He came to the U.K. on a scholarship when he was 21 and has spent the last 30 in the U.K. in hospital and GP practice.

I’ve mentioned it before, either on this or in the parallel thread. There are private GPs you can access via apps whose charges start at around £30, telephone or video. It’s an immediate solution even if not ideal for continuity of care and complex things. A couple of friends have used them and been pleased. It’s still only 10 minutes per appointment though.

If the GPs leave the service will have to be alternatively funded, hopefully a system similar to those in France/Germany/Austria which are free only at the point of delivery for those who need a safety net whilst others pay. That is the only thing that will inject a service mentality back into the system.

GPs effectively run small businesses and have had it very good for a very long time. It would be far less tough if they got themselves up to date and the pandemic has rather forced their hand vis technology. As I have said upthread the service from my practice has improved 100 fold since they went on-line which was impossible pre covid.

My GP has time to fanny about writing me six prescriptions per year for levothyroxine. When I was diagnosed 30 years ago I got one prescription for 365 tablets and a form for a blood test. My dose has never changed. My GP has time to are about 6 times in a twelve month period rather than once. When I have questioned it I am patronising told it's very important because they must monitor my health. If they were doing that I would need a blood test every two months - no? But no, I have always had to ask for my annual blood test otherwise it isn't done. Monitoring by backside but certainly no problem doing the unnecessary and wasting my time, especially when the script isn't actually sent to the pharmacy!

Interesting Parker. A 70 hour week is equivalent to 10 hours every single day; or 14 hours x 5. I simply don't believe GP's work those hours. If they did there would be more appointments available before 8.30 or after 6.30.

I am glad your DH has repaid the value of his scholarship. However if a GP at my practice earns £80+k for 3 days pw, then I assume your DH earns well in excess of six figures.

A shame you don't enjoy life in the UK. Canada has a partially funded system I believe - interesting that such systems should be considered so attractive by the raft of Drs who are leaving the UK. If they don't think the UK serves them well; which bit of it do they think is serving the patie to well - you know those people who fund it, whose telephone calls aren't answered and who are generally messed around and afforded negligible respect.

Husband's experience a couple of week's back

Phone at 8am to get on waiting list for callback

Callback at 11am and told need urine test

Trip to doctors to pick up pot ( biking 2km each way as doesn't drive). not allowed into doctors to use loos to provide sample

Back home wee in pot, wait until afternoon break to return pot to doctors. Doctor said to wait after handing sample in so could test straight away, receptionist ignored this and sent away.

Phone call at 7pm saying needed to go straight to hospital for treatment.

Ridiculous that they don't allow a vaccinated person into the surgery to provide a requested urine sample.

[quote SchnitzelVonCrummsTum]@Heathermary1995 - what do you suggest the GP tries when there are too many patients that want appointments and not enough appointments? Genuinely interested.

GPs are funded based on:

each patient attending 3-4 times per year on average
each patient getting 2 home visits in their lifetime, one to certify their death

The average patient attends approximately 7 times per year.

Essentially, General Practice funding is a relic from an age when each practice had fewer patients per GP, less could be done for them (essentially penicillin, painkillers, sedatives) and they died younger, having seen a lot less of their GPs en route.

If you can explain how that is meant to compute I'm sure that GPs would be genuinely grateful.[/quote]
As a previous poster alluded to, there are competent and incompetent members of the NHS which includes GPS so any burden of responsibility/blame for a poor service will differ according to what that specific GP does or doesn't to.

The criticism is not directed mainly at the people working within the NHS ( at least at the medical level) , but the way it is structured both in terms of numbers and the needless bureaucracy needed to even arrange a telephone consultation which feels akin to a medieval sacrifice of mind/body/soul logging in filling in endless questions. It's no surprise many elderly people who may not be IT literate or have reduced access to online devices struggle with what seems to be an only digital service at doctor surgeries.

Long before covid came on the scene, I used to have a 2-3 week wait to see a GP.. how can anyone think that is remotely acceptable? If a GP is funded on " 2 home visits per year, 1 to certify their death" it doesn't confirm anything other than a health service which needs completely reshaping from top to bottom regardless of whether the employees in it are for the majority hard working and competent. That said, I've personally experienced several horrific levels of medical ineptitude from the NHS not even taking into account waiting times.

The phone thing doesn't work for me - they'll only say am or pm, but I can't have a phone on me the whole time at work.

Roses - DH’s GP practice have morning and afternoon appointments, evenings twice a week and one full Saturday each month. This hasn’t changed through the pandemic. Patients can’t get appointments when they want as GP’s now have way too many patients per practice not because GP’s aren’t available.
His scholarship was provided by Canada not the U.K. He is a Canadian and dual qualified.
We have lived in the U.K. for many years. I came when I was five. Went to school and Uni in the U.K. and our DT’s were born and educated here. Due to Brexit our quality of life will be better in Canada where we are both entitled to work. We appreciate we are lucky to have options and the opportunity.

Thanks sirzy. I'll have a look at the Facebook group.

I sat and cried when the receptionist put the phone down on me today. I wasn't rude at all. I just said to her 'how can I get him seen, we need help'. I know it's not her fault but she wasn't even prepared to ask the Doctor if they would reconsider and offer Ds a quicker appointment. I was just told there is nothing available.

Camhs sent the GP an ED protocol to follow on what they should be doing but the GP said that all they can do is ask the practice nurse to weigh Ds, measure his height and do his BP and pulse. If his pulse is not below 60, then they have said he does not meet the criteria for an ECG. And there is no available appointments to do that for 12 days. Is this where Covid had left us? Our surgery is empty, I can't understand why they can't see him earlier.

Our local ED team have said it's not within their remit. Suggested that it's the GP's job, yet the GP didn't seem to have any idea of what they could do.

Sometimes you feel like absolutely nobody cares.

I don't understand Parker. If the Drs are all working 12 hour days at least 6 days a week (because that is equivalent to 70 hours pw), why aren't there evening surgeries every day rather than two? Honest question.

Try and see it from the doctors’ perspective. A year ago we had to be heros , working with inadequate PPE , many of us caught covid while the rest of the population were protected at home.

Do you really blame healthcare workers wanting to reduce our risk with fewer face to face appointments? It takes far longer to do F2F now with cleaning and PPE. Far better to do some telephone/ video calls.

@LimaFoxtrotCharlie

I don’t want telephone consultations. I want to book a face to face appointment in a couple of weeks time, when I can arrange it around my job. I can’t answer the phone when I’m working, so a call simply doesn’t work for me. I don’t have set breaks or lunch hours either, so cannot ask for a call back at a specific time

Do you absolutely need a face to face appointment though? It's not the GP's fault you can't work a telephone call around your job? Get a call booked for your day off?

GPs face so many timewasters - not saying you are. Phone appointments should always be the first port of call, to weed out timewasters and/or things that can be dealt with quickly, and then if absolutely necessary you should be given a face to face appointment.

Just preferring a face to face appointment because of your work schedule isn't enough.

@VanGoghsDog

Think it's only phone appointments here. Though I quite like it, I can get on with work right up until they call and then get back to work after - no travel, no half an hour in the waiting room surrounded by ill people and screaming kids.

I prefer it too....hope it stays like this after Covid restrictions finish

My GP is open to face to face appointments . However my dentist is emergency only, as is my optician.

@therestissilence

Clearly, going by the responses, it varies wildly from GP to GP. Many posters seem convinced that because their GP is offering face-to-face, all others are. This is simply not the case. For many it's not a case of 'Protect the NHS', but 'Bring Back the NHS'.

My understanding is that GP surgeries are effectively private businesses that provide a service on behalf of the NHS.

They are not the NHS per se, they are already privatised (in the same way that huge swathes of the NHS has actually been privatised without the average person realising).

Hence, all GP surgeries have their own rules about whether / when they see patients at the moment as they each make their own decisions on this.

Happy to be corrected if wrong...

@RosesAndHellebores

I don't understand Parker. If the Drs are all working 12 hour days at least 6 days a week (because that is equivalent to 70 hours pw), why aren't there evening surgeries every day rather than two? Honest question.

Because they are also doing other things. Because there is huge amounts of administrative work to do as well as seeing patients - reviewing and acting on test results, making referrals, sorting safeguarding referrals and follow ups, medication sign off, death certification, home visits, care home visits, writing letters, sorting information for coroner or police, teaching and supervising, typing up notes, chasing referrals. There’s lots of behind the scenes work going on too. Most are working very long hours with excess, unpaid hours.

They are also managing vaccination programmes, often cover minor injuries units or hospices or cottage hospitals. Some work alongside accident department staff in hospitals. Some cover custody suites. Some work in homeless shelters and children’s centres too. It’s not all sitting at a desk writing a script for antibiotics.