What counts as a carer?

[HedgeSparrows]

Since COVID started over a year ago I have been doing the weekly shopping for an elderly neighbour. I also do odd jobs like gardening, sorting prescriptions, sorting out problems such as services, and popping round to chat through the window. He has no family. We befriended him 14 years ago and he has been like a surrogate grandfather to the children. We would pop in a lot pre-COVID but it's being once or twice a week since the restrictions and I haven't been inside his house. (Obviously this is all done on a voluntary basis - I thoroughly enjoy his company, as do the children, and he seems to enjoy ours!).

Does this count as being a carer?

I will be honest I am desperate for the vaccine. I am 49 and a TA. I feel at risk at work and was pinning all my hopes on getting the vaccine soon but it is now looking as thought it will be well in to May due to the vaccine delays.

My cousin was able to get a vaccine this week as an unpaid carer for her mum. Her mum is generally quite well but suffers from flare ups of arthritis now and again and my friend helps out with things like taking her shopping or to appointments when her arthritis is too bad for her to drive. She doesn't help out daily or anything major like personal care.
The only thing she was advised was to book through GP rather than mass vaccination centre as the mass vaccination centres sometimes ask for proof of eligibility which obviously she can't provide. Her GP was happy to oblige.

It's not what I would think of as a carer no

As far as I know, for you to be registered as a carer with your GP (and be eligible for the vaccine), you would need a carer's assessment.

While its fanstasic what you are doing you are not a carer.

You dont support with personal care. You don't wash, dress, feed, medicate, bathe or toilet this person. You are not a carer.

Please dont try and put yourself in this category. Carers have a hard enough time as it is!

Thanks everyone. I was wondering but I guess you are right.
I think I should stop reading the vaccine threads on here!

I’m going to go against the grain here and say you would be eligible as a carer. According to NHS England, being a carer does not always mean providing personal care, it can also mean emotional support. OP see below taken from the NHS England page

“A carer is anyone, including children and adults who looks after a family member, partner or friend who needs help because of their illness, frailty, disability, a mental health problem or an addiction and cannot cope without their support. The care they give is unpaid. When we refer to carers in this document, this is inclusive of both adult and young carers.

This means that the sort of roles and responsibilities that carers have to provide varies widely. They can range from help with everyday tasks such as getting out of bed and personal care such as bathing, to emotional support such as helping someone cope with the symptoms of a mental illness.”

OP my first vaccine is booked for tomorrow as carer for my mum who has rheumatoid arthritis. I do the shopping, collect her medications, provide emotional support and drive her to appointments if necessary. There is also guidance that you will not need to provide evidence that you’re a carer - I earn too much for carers allowance, am not flagged as a carer on GP records (I’ve never really thought of myself as a carer before so didn’t think it necessary) so cannot prove anything. But I’m doing nothing wrong and neither are you. You can book online 😊

I know a couple who booked because they have children and 'care' for them. Neither child has any additional needs or medical conditions they are just children but the couple decided that the fact the children are 'dependents' made them 'carers' according to the dictionary so they could get the vaccine.

I think that you would know if you were really an unpaid carer and would not need to ask the internet.

No - you aren’t in close enough contact to be a risk to him.

You know this!

I think you need to have underlying eligibility for carers allowance. I can't receive it because I earn too much a week from my pt job but it I wasn't working I could claim it because dd gets pip

@Iamclearlyamug.

You know that the point of carers getting vaccinations early is to protect the vulnerable person they care for. If you are driving your mum, that’s just about plausible - if you sit her next to you so you can chat for emotional support - but the OP does not have close enough physical contact to the person she helps out to be a danger to him.

I understand the impulse to queue jump, but there is no point bullshitting about it.

I'm a carer and have had the vaccine because of that. I'm on the fence with this. Part of the rationale for giving the vaccine to carers is because the person being cared for would struggle if their carer was ill. This man might struggle if OP was ill and couldn't help him out.

OP, if you are as close as you say you are with this chap then pop round and have a word with him. Ask him if he would object to you classing yourself as his carer. If he feels that is the role you play in his life then I think you should go for it. But I don't think you should declare yourself his carer without his consent.

No you are not his carer. Go on the vaccine booking website and choose the unpaid carer option. It gives you a very clear definition to agree to before you book. I understand how you feel and I also feel the same and have some justification for doing it but I can't bring myself to do it because it isn't right and I feel that karma might come for me!!

The general interpretation of "carer" and the specific interpretation for the purposes of COVID-19 vaccination may differ.

The Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation: advice on priority groups for COVID-19 vaccination says, when providing guidance on vaccinating "Persons with underlying health conditions" (i.e. Group 6) that...

"Other groups at higher risk, including those who are in receipt of a carer’s allowance, or those who are the main carer of an elderly or disabled person whose welfare may be at risk if the carer falls ill, should also be offered vaccination alongside these groups."

That is the official guidance from the JCVI on who should be vaccinated along with Group 6.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-30-december-2020/joint-committee-on-vaccination-and-immunisation-advice-on-priority-groups-for-covid-19-vaccination-30-december-2020

Carers are getting vaccinated not for their own protection but for the protection of the vulnerable that they care for. Yes you are a carer albeit not a formal one. Your gp will do the vaccine if you ask. How ridiculous to say your not a carer unless you do personal care.

Some of the definitions seem strange because by that logic they should also prioritise everyone who lives alone and doesn't have any help as they would struggle just the same if they themselves got unwell as someone who normally has help. Helping someone with gardening or cleaning may count as "care" but those are both tasks that could easily wait two weeks if you did get ill. Shopping could be ordered for home delivery. I live alone and have no family in this country, so if I got very ill (but not hospitalised) no one would do my cleaning either if I couldn't.

I don't think you qualify as a carer under the Covid-19 vaccination criteria, but you have my sympathies as I am similarly eager to have my vaccination. I'm slightly younger than you, narrowly miss out on group 6 for health reasons and feel 'at risk' at work. We've had a Covid case at work and have been expected to go in as usual because staff member did not list us as close contacts to contact-tracing!

I've investigated the carer thing, as I have a son with ASD, but I don't qualify as he isn't CEV. I wonder if you could try for one of the 'spare vaccines at the end of the day' as I think some teaching staff are getting vaccinated in this way. In my area they've now got a list for this too, and to get on the list you need to be a public sector employee (I guess they are aiming for police and teaching staff) and I am private sector.

Don't think it should be too long though.......

The GPs locally are defining as someone who provides full time care to someone who is at increased risk ( not specifically covid risk) which is different from the current online booking definition which is again different from the carers allowance vaccination letter definition.

No help to OP, although can say I do some similar volunteering & don't count myself as a carer either.

I want to share this (true, honest) anecdote today.

DH was told (by someone in scrubs & mask at the vacc centre) to lie & say he was a carer today .

DH didn't lie... he'd rag me for years on back of that. He's 46 & it was a walk-in centre for jabs, with zero patient Q. As in, I suspect they are going to throw away thawed/unused doses today. Many staff were sitting around with nothing to do. It was a great convenience for me to go today, I was done in < 10 minutes, but daft they didn't let DH get his jab today, too.

Need to do something productive with my life now...

@landofgiants

I don't think you qualify as a carer under the Covid-19 vaccination criteria, but you have my sympathies as I am similarly eager to have my vaccination. I'm slightly younger than you, narrowly miss out on group 6 for health reasons and feel 'at risk' at work. We've had a Covid case at work and have been expected to go in as usual because staff member did not list us as close contacts to contact-tracing!

I've investigated the carer thing, as I have a son with ASD, but I don't qualify as he isn't CEV. I wonder if you could try for one of the 'spare vaccines at the end of the day' as I think some teaching staff are getting vaccinated in this way. In my area they've now got a list for this too, and to get on the list you need to be a public sector employee (I guess they are aiming for police and teaching staff) and I am private sector.

Don't think it should be too long though.......

@landofgiants

The person you are caring for does not need to be in the CEV category for you to be counted as a carer and entitled to be vaccinated along with group 6. The JCVI guidance does not require this. This is because the CEV category only covers that individual's specific vulnerability to COVID-19 - not the extent to which they are entirely dependent on someone else for their care.

If your son has significant disabilities and his welfare would be at risk if you were to fall ill - then your GP should include you with Group 6.

Carers UK have provide template letters to help carers register with their GP...

www.carersuk.org/help-and-advice/health/looking-after-your-health/register-as-an-unpaid-carer-with-your-gp-template-letter

Contact has produced a useful template letter to help parents complain if their GP tells them they are not a priority for the COVID-19 vaccine.

contact.org.uk/about-contact/news-and-views/contact-produces-template-letter-to-help-carers-struggling-to-get-the-covid-vaccine/

The PP who said you don’t get close enough to be a risk to him - that’s not what the issue is! It’s if the person’s welfare would suffer if you caught Covid and were unable to carry out your duties for them. If you fell ill, would he have anyone else who could do his shopping/get his prescriptions etc? If the answer is no then in my opinion you provide a decent level of care for him and should get the vaccine. There are plenty of appointments going in our area at the moment. Get the jab if you can, you’ve only just missed out by age.

I do agree with a PP who said you should speak to the gentleman in question first though - see if he considers you his career etc.

It is a very grey area, I know many who are doing similar to the OP but mainly for parents/grand parents who have had the vaccine under the carers group, as the definition includes elderly. Most have gone through the GP route to get the appointment and used the letter template from the charities websites. The success this way is down to the GPs.