Why are we vaccinating everyone?

[preparetheships]

This is not a goady post and I am not anti vaccine. I am genuinely wondering why we are vaccinating everyone.
The vaccine does not prevent people catching the vaccine, just reduces the symptoms and risk of being seriously ill.
Is it financially worth while vaccinating people who, most likely, will have mild symptoms if any symptoms at all. Or should we just operate a vaccination system similar to the flu vaccination scheme?
I'd be grateful for any links for further information.

[quote bumbleymummy]Sure, an 'anti-vaxx' troll that has posted several links to papers about the effectiveness of vaccines and why they are being spaced out the way they are and has said several times about how well we have done with the vaccine campaign in the UK in relation to vaccinating the most vulnerable. I would consider myself a pretty crap one!

I've noticed that you present yourself as a bit of an 'expert' on some topics but you don't stand up to scrutiny very well, either resorting to insults or just disappearing off the thread. I guess it's easier to 'not engage' with someone when you can't answer basic questions or back up some of your statements. I think people are starting to see through that though.

Measles has never been eliminated in the UK by the way. What years did you think it had been? There have always been cases:

www.gov.uk/government/publications/measles-confirmed-cases/confirmed-cases-of-measles-mumps-and-rubella-in-england-and-wales-2012-to-2013[/quote]
It isn’t endemic though. The global goal is measles eradication. We were within reach of it, but it’s slipping away. Not for reasons that are scientific but largely geopolitical.

notrub

I don’t know why you’re tagging me it wasn’t the measles comment I was agreeing with.

But as you did:

This is standard knowledge for anyone who actually works in medicine or is connected to it btw

What is your connection to medicine?

@notrub re measles and polio "both have been eliminated due to herd-immunity."

So you really meant that the UK was temporarily given measles elimination status by the WHO in 2017 but it is actually no longer considered to be eliminated in the UK due to transmission being re-established in subsequent years?

Fair enough.

My auntie is way past her second jab (part of vaccine trial) and she’s just tested positive for covid. Does all seem a bit pointless and like this will never end if we insist that ‘cases’ have to be low.....

Well that’s why we need joined up thinking and a policy in which vaccination is part of the solution not just the end point that frees us. But that is a totally different argument that has been raging for a year.

** just reduces the symptoms and risk of being seriously ill.

This is the main point OP ohhhh not to mention the economy is going to shit!

Meanwhile schools have just gone back to school whilst we are still in a lockdown.

Because even the healthiest of us could end up in intensive care and loose our life.

It’s much better to try and eradicate the disease than let it live on and hope the healthy survive

@tappitytaptap

My auntie is way past her second jab (part of vaccine trial) and she’s just tested positive for covid. Does all seem a bit pointless and like this will never end if we insist that ‘cases’ have to be low.....

Who’s insisting cases have to be low long term? As we have more evidence of the vaccines real world performances then we have the room to allow cases to rise as high as our healthcare system can cope with (which I would expect to be much higher than we can cope with now).

Of course our government have to be wary and keep a close surveillance on how the disease progresses through society, but the goal isn’t eradication but an acceptable level of sickness.

@TidyOmlette

Because even the healthiest of us could end up in intensive care and loose our life.

It’s much better to try and eradicate the disease than let it live on and hope the healthy survive

It seems to be accepted that we won’t actually eradicate it.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2

It seems to be accepted that we won’t actually eradicate it.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00396-2

Globally absolutely we won't. The difficulty we've had in getting polio eradicated despite decades of effort makes it unlikely - in fact I wonder who the 10% are who thought it would be!

Individual countries though - completely different kettle of fish.
In THAT survey you link 39% thought it likely it would be, vs 52% who thought it wouldn't be. I strongly suspect US scientists for example would be in the latter camp given the high level of vaccine rejection over there, while Asian-based scientists would likely be in the first category.

It would be highly interesting to see how the views have changed now nations like Israel and the UK have been able to demonstrate that a high level of vaccine uptake DOES restrict transmission - something unknown in January.

@tappitytaptap

My auntie is way past her second jab (part of vaccine trial) and she’s just tested positive for covid. Does all seem a bit pointless and like this will never end if we insist that ‘cases’ have to be low.....

While that’s upsetting and perhaps worrying for your Auntie, it does not mean this is all pointless. Firstly, she is very unlikely to become seriously ill. Secondly, far fewer vaccinated people test positive for the virus than unvaccinated ones.

Remember we still have a lot of unvaccinated people still unprotected. We need to keep going until we have vaccinated as many as possible. Then the virus will have little opportunity to circulate, so numbers will stay low.

This video for children is excellent.

Vaccination is the only reliable way to achieve herd immunity. No one can predict in advance how ill they will get if they are infected. By getting vaccinated we protect ourselves and others. It’s the single most useful thing we can do to get our society functioning again.

@borntobequiet the majority of people who have recovered from infection are also immune. We know more about immunity after infection than after vaccination atm. It all contributes to herd immunity.

Partly because people have been terrified into submission by the government. Telling us that ANYONE can die, ICU is full of 25 year olds with no health conditions. If they want us to get back to work and out and spending to support the economy, they need to make people feel safe and vaccinating them is the way to do that.

Also it will reduce transmission and further protect those who are vulnerable, as the vaccine is not 100% effective.

Vaccine is cheap.

[quote bumbleymummy]@borntobequiet the majority of people who have recovered from infection are also immune. We know more about immunity after infection than after vaccination atm. It all contributes to herd immunity.[/quote]
Yes I know. But vaccination is the only way to achieve effective herd immunity. Very high percentages of people who have antibodies are needed for this. I hope you’re not suggesting that we all just get Covid as an alternative strategy. How many deaths have there been so far?

No, I’m not saying that. I don’t think it has to be one vs the other. We should be glad that infection is mild for the majority and gives immunity and we should be glad that we have a vaccine that can reduce risks for the most vulnerable who are more likely to end up in hospital/die.

and we should be glad that we have a vaccine that can reduce risks for the most vulnerable who are more likely to end up in hospital/die.

And that will prevent many others contracting a disease that though it may not kill them, could have very unpleasant long term effects (at worst) or keep them off work for a week or two if not so severe.

My husband works in intensive care.

At first it was old and vulnerable people coming through the doors.

Now it's healthy and young people.

Nobody is safe, and that's why it makes sense to offer the vaccine to everyone. They're really mystified as to why they're getting fit and healthy people succumb to COVID that makes them sick enough to not only need hospital treatment but intensive care therapy.

preparetheships

The vaccine does not prevent people catching the vaccine, just reduces the symptoms and risk of being seriously ill.”

You’ve answered your own question.

[quote bobbyfischer]@Lemons1571

This is ridiculous. The "vaccine" doesn't stop transmission, just severe symptoms allegedly. If anything, having a vaccine that prevents death but allows infection will produce even deadlier variants than viral transmission among the unvaccinated. If an unvaccinated person gets a really deadly strain they die and the chain of infection is broken. But if a vaccinated person gets the same strain, and doesn't die, then they can still pass it on.

vaccination isn't the be all and end all of fighting covid, not that you would know listening to the media or the government. covid19criticalcare dot com has data of effective and cheap treatments backed up by trials from all around the world. Ivermectin is especially efficacious AND safe.[/quote]
The vaccines reduce transmission by 60-75%, depending on which one. This has now been established. Stop spouting nonsense.

I've been looking at the P & O cruises for later this year, they are only around the British Isles, they will only accept passengers who have been vaccinated both doses & have to have a negative test no more than 7 days before departure date. That includes under 18's.

Those saying but "it will mutate" I have a question for you - why don't we vaccinate everyone with flu then?
We've seen flu can be deadly, we've seen how easily it transmits and mutates. Why don't we vaccinate everyone for flu in case we get different strains of that?