Do I really need to WFH after being vaccinated?

[bastaebasta]

Just that, really.

I've been appoached about a job that I wouldn't normally consider other than the fact it is offering permanent homeworking. That sounds really attractive right now, but assuming I do eventually get vaccinated, and my CEV parents get vaccinated, what difference will this make to my odds of getting ill from Covid/passing it on?

Ignoring the impact of the vaccine, I'm at a medium risk of getting ill from Covid and my parents are at an extremely high risk of Covid.

All the research I can find is on whether the vaccine is safe, not how much safer it will make your life/your loved one's lives afterwards.

What would you do? (I currently have a job with a reasonable amount of security, but I hate aspects of it, and I will be forced back into the office if I stay.)

I know it's a total first world problem, but my anxiety is sky high and this is keeping me up at night. I'd be really grateful for some outside opinions.

I can't comment on the work thing as that's really up to your preference! If you enjoy WFH and you like the sound of the job you should go for it.

The vaccine will reduce yours and your parents likelihood of getting really sick with COVID, and it's looking like it'll reduce transmission rates too which is good.

It's up to you really, but from a safety point of you once you're 3 weeks post vaccination you'll all have a much much lower chance of getting really sick with COVID, so office working won't be an issue at all if that's what you want to do!

One thing that would matter to me is that until you have been employed for two years you can be dismissed for any reason or no reason at all other than discrimination.

That would make a difference to me but maybe not you??

@StormcloakNord So you think three weeks after I've been vaccinated (which will be many weeks after my parents are vaccinated) the risk to me getting ill/making them ill will be minimal? Have you seen anything to back this up? I know the risk will be less, but given I have an opportunity to remove that risk outright, I'm looking to get a feel for what sort of risk I'm comparing. This is the bit I can't find anywhere!

I wouldn't say I prefer to WFH, just that I'm able to work from WFH efficiently, and I'd rather continue to WFH if it makes things much safer. If Covid didn't exist, I'd prefer to work from an office. I just know my allegedly "Covid-secure" office isn't really Covid-secure, given how many times it's shut due to Covid, and how many of my colleagues who are going in have no regard for the rules. I don't think it's safe at all at the moment given their behaviour, but if me getting vaccinated (even if they didn't get vaccinated) kept me and my parents truly safe, I'd reconsider going in.

@StarCat2020 It is definitely a consideration. I think if I were to take the new job and lose the new job, I would be able to find another one with a gap of no more than one to six months. Subject, of course, to any other worldwide disasters.

The cut off for furlough is a consideration too - when it was first brought in, people who had only just moved jobs were screwed. If things were to suddenly go to shit and some new kind of scheme was introduced, moving jobs would likely block me from government support. The fact that I have savings is a comfort, but the fact that I know people still jobhunting after a year is less reassuring. Savings don't last forever and if the pandemic has taught me anything, it's that you can't plan for/predict every eventuality!

https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2021/02/23/covid-19-analysing-first-vaccine-effectiveness-in-the-uk/

There's some decent figures there on the gov.uk website. That's just the effectiveness of the actual vaccine itself.

Also from a science standpoint, with an initial immune response under your belt, the second immune response will be more rapid and will result in you getting less sick. It's how vaccinations work

The data for transmission rates being lowered is still being formulated so it'll be interesting to see a report with data on that when it's done.

publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2021/02/23/covid-19-analysing-first-vaccine-effectiveness-in-the-uk/

This is also a really good source with a lot of information on the vaccines, if you wanted to read up on it!

Whoops - same link again.

vk.ovg.ox.ac.uk/vk/covid-19-vaccines

I meant that one!

Thanks, @StormcloakNord. I do really appreciate you signposting those links for me.

healthcare workers were 72% less likely to develop infection (with or without symptoms) after one dose of the vaccine, rising to 86% after the second dose.

Protection from any COVID-19 symptoms in over-80s is 57% from four weeks after vaccination. After the second dose, effectiveness rises to more than 85%.

The vaccine was shown to prevent 73% of cases in individuals with at least one underlying health condition. The vaccine has also been shown to produce similar immune responses in older adults when compared with young, healthy individuals, although the efficacy data for this group is not yet available.

Given my parents' additional risk factors, I'd imagine that the 73% is lower, so what I'm probably interested in before seeing them again is the data on transmission rates (which I understand is not yet available).

Odds of 85% seem reasonable for me risking going to work, but the odds of what are probably less than 73% due to additional complicating factors are a bit less reassuring for me potentially passing Covid onto my parents. Maybe the answer is I don't prioritise the WFH job, but I still hold off on seeing my parents until more data is available on how contagious I could be after being vaccinated.

I live in quite a populated area and they live in the country, so I worry about picking it up on my way to see them. I've just had so many personal losses last year that I can't bear the thought of being the person to make my parents ill.

Whilst you might like to be in an office, I think you should wfh for as long as possible. Everyone has a responsibility for health and safety, and by staying wfh there is one less person in the office and so a bit more space. Not everyone will have had their first vaccine until July, so they can still spread it to unvaccinated colleagues and their families.

As for selfish inconsiderate colleagues, if they are all as bad as you hint, they don't deserve the job they have.

A friend had their second dose of Pfizer over a week ago and has just tested positive for Covid and feels pretty rubbish with it too.

Just a reminder that vaccinations don’t make us bulletproof. I’ve had my first and will be WFH until I’m told otherwise.

@DragonMamma That's quite unusual, have they reported it to anyone? I imagine there would be some interest in case they have a new strain.

Catching it is one thing @DragonMamma but so long as they don’t become seriously ill, need hospital or die then the vaccine has done the job. Illness is a fact if life. Some illnesses are nasty & grim. Even a cold can make you feel atrocious. Yet we’ve all lived without much fear in the past.

We may still catch COVID but if it’s just something that makes you feel grotty for 10-14 days then so be it. It’s not going anywhere, at some point we have to face up to the fact it’s an illness that we may catch every winter. We may not. Much like every other illness.

I personally wish they’d make a norovirus vaccine cos that’s wiped us out as a family on more than one occasion. We were all so sick for days and one after another. God, both bouts were hideous! 🙈 but I don’t live in fear of it despite it being incredibly contagious. Kids go to nursery & softplay & all the germy things kids do. I go to work etc.

[quote whatswithtodaytoday]@DragonMamma That's quite unusual, have they reported it to anyone? I imagine there would be some interest in case they have a new strain.[/quote]
They work in healthcare so I’d imagine it will be 👍🏻👍🏻

Your body doesn't start making antibodies until st least a week after having the vaccine, do the friend's case is not at all unusual.

@DragonMamma That's good 👍 I hope she feels better soon.

Did you work this hard to stop yourself passing on other germs before COVID?
As others have said illness is part of life.
Once you’ve all been vaccinated then this kind of response is disproportionate to the actual risk to your family.
COVID is just one among many diseases that we have to live along side.
The rhetoric of keeping us all ‘safe’ is nonsense and deeply unhelpful in the long term I think.

@JanFebAnyMonth

Your body doesn't start making antibodies until st least a week after having the vaccine, do the friend's case is not at all unusual.

It was her second dose. So she should have had a decent level of protection.

Sorry I missed that bit of info!

Although no vaccine gives anything like 100% guarantee against catching Covid. Not even against serious illness, although quite good levels of protection. So there will always be some that become infected after full vaccination.

@CuthbertDibbleandGrubb Some of my colleagues are perfectly sensible, considerate folk. The ones who are voluntarily coming into the office now are a different breed. I don't understand why they're allowed to come in - they don't respect the rules (as captured on Zoom) and the office keeps shutting temporarily for deep cleans due to undisclosed members of staff testing positive. It's not hard to work out why the office keeps closing...

@HolmeH If it was something that made you feel grotty for 10-14 days, I would be less scared. But I've lost my extended family to Covid, and some of my friends have developed long Covid and have reduced lung function and depression as a result. I had the flu once and it was awful, but I recovered from it. Covid isn't just something you recover from - it can linger and permanently trash your health. I guess I'm scared of getting long Covid myself rather than dying from long Covid, but in my parents' case, I'm scared of them dying from long Covid. Especially if I'm the person who infects them.

@Smartiepants79 I used to get the flu jab every year, but no, I wasn't this religious about avoiding germs. I suppose the difference is I've lost a lot of family during the pandemic, and I'm terrified about losing who I have left. My parents have only become CEV during the last year.

@JanFebAnyMonth Everything in life has some degree of risk. I guess I'm just trying to assess how much risk there really is here. I'm not trying to choose between my current job and no job, which is the dilemma some face. I'm trying to choose between my current job and one which might be less secure and offer less progression, but that will allow me to reduce my risk further. If the risk I'm trying to reduce is already very small, it's probably objectively not worth it. If the risk I'm trying to reduce is high, then it's a choice I would probably make.

I do recognise I am extremely anxious and some of my thoughts may not be entirely rational, hence wanting to bounce them off different people.