Vaccine if you have had covid? Looking for scientific data

[windisblowing]

Sorry if there is already thread on this, I haven't located one.
DH and I disagree so I wondered if there was any data out there that would help inform our decisions.
We had covid this year, and were both very ill with it. We are now going to be eligible for vaccines soon.
One of us thinks we should get the vaccine, one of us thinks we now have antibodies so don't need to get it this year.
I am sure everyone has a different opinion on this, but is there any scientific data out there covering:

1.what risk we are at without the jabs?

1. what is the benefit of getting the jab if you already have antibodies
2. whether the reaction to the jab is different once you have had the virus?
3. is there any immune system risk to having the jab whilst we are already full of antibodies (one of us has peculiar immune responses to various things)

thanks all

Early research suggests one dose is enough

www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n308

KurtWilde Why not? It's like saying 'I've had flu so I won't be getting vaccinated against that.'

@sunshinesupermum I don't have the flu jab either. What's your point?

This was discussed on a Webinar with the Zoe app team a few weeks ago. The consensus was that wild infection would act like the first vaccine dose, and then the first vaccine dose would act as a booster. So they thought it plausible that you would not need a second dose to have a good level of long-lasting immunity, if you have had previous infection. But then they said there was no problem with having additional doses even if you didn't strictly need them.

France are only giving one dose to people who have previous confirmed infection - presumably to save doses. In the UK, the advice remains to have two doses.

I tested positive on New Year's Eve and had my first dose (Pfizer) on 16th Feb. I had minor tenderness at the injection site and some redness/swelling/bruising. I had a very mild headache off and on (so mild, I was asking myself if I really had one), and was a bit tired for a couple of days.

I plan to have the second dose when invited, because - why not? If it's gonna mutate my DNA (hint: it isn't) it's too late already, so I may as well have the belt and braces of the possibility of more protection.

Well, firstly find out if you have antibodies. I can recommend the excellent BioCard finger prick test where you fill up a small tube and send it back to the lab. It's highly (99.5%) effective in identifying the Spike protein antibodies. That's the first thing to do.

There isn't a black and white answer to your question. If you have high antibody levels now, you probably don't need a vaccine BUT, my own view is that if you had Covid badly, then you may want to look at getting at least one shot of vaccine in order to boost your levels. If you have low antibody levels now, then consider a vaccine, but of course immunity isn't just about blood antibody levels, it's also about memory T cells, but we can't test for that so easily.

I have S protein antibodies 8 months after an asymptomatic Covid infection. I have antibody levels at those of someone who has already had the vaccine, therefore I've decided not to have it. However I totally understand someone making the opposite decision.

I don't think there's any risk to having the vaccine if you have loads of antibodies. Any risk is from the adjuvants or other added ingredients, in my opinion, and whether you are sensitive to any of those.

@sunshinesupermum

KurtWilde Why not? It's like saying 'I've had flu so I won't be getting vaccinated against that.'

It actually isn't. Flu mutates far more frequently and there are far more strains about e.g. Type A, Type B and so on. If you've had Covid then you'll have antibodies (hopefully) to the whole virus (not just the spike protein). Unless the virus mutates a lot, you'll be immune. That would also apply to those having the vaccine, if the spike protein mutates too far from the injected sequence.

I don't get offered flu jab btw it's only for over 60s or those with underlying conditions in my health authority. I'm neither.

Not an anti-vaxxer, either, before I get piled on. Personal choice IS still a thing, right? I've educated myself, spoken to a HCP (who also said long covid isn't in any medical journal and evidence of its existence is anecdotal!), and I made an informed choice based on my age, what the HCP said, and the fact I've had the illness already.

My sister had covid beginning of year age still went for vaccination - had to wait I think a month after positive covid test.

If you've had Covid then you'll have antibodies (hopefully) to the whole virus (not just the spike protein). Unless the virus mutates a lot, you'll be immune

Both other half and I had Covid - he more severely than I - and neither of us have antibodies. The virus has already mutated. We've had the vaccine.

I'm out of here now. Too many anti-virus conspiracies flying about. Get vaccinated and stop spreading this bloody awful virus.

KurtWilde, was this “HCP” actually a doctor? Because we are setting up long Covid rehab clinics all over the country. I am a retired hospital doctor who is still suffering from long Covid almost one year after being hospitalised with my original Covid infection.
There is nothing “anecdotal” about the thousands of confirmed patients suffering from this.

Interesting as I have autoimmune problems, and am still suffering some on going covid symptoms, they are improving just taking a while, rest of my family had it milder than me and no lasting effects, I am always worried that I could feel worse after vaccine, but I think benefits outweigh risk, 🤨

Both other half and I had Covid - he more severely than I - and neither of us have antibodies. The virus has already mutated.

That's really unfortunate that neither of you have antibodies, it does happen though. The virus hasn't mutated enough to cause either the vaccines not to work or naturally-gained immunity not to work.

I posted this on another thread earlier but it might be of interest to some here. Natural immunity isn’t considered to be inferior to the vaccine. pre-print:

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.09.21253218v1

Article summarising study:
oxfordbrc.nihr.ac.uk/two-doses-of-vaccine-offer-same-protection-from-covid-as-prior-infection-study-finds/

“ Two doses of either the Pfizer or Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine offer similar protection against symptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infection to that coming from natural immunity after infection, an ongoing study of healthcare workers has found.”

“ By using viral sequencing, the Oxford team found that there was no evidence that either vaccine or natural infection provided less protection against the new B.1.1.7 “Kent” strain of the virus.

The study also found that rate of positive PCR tests with or without symptoms were lower after vaccination and previous infection, suggesting that both vaccination and previous infection are likely to reduce onward transmission, and even when people did get infected after a previous infection there was evidence that the amount of virus present was reduced, making transmission less likely.”

There have been several studies showing that immunity after natural infection does persist for several months. There have also been a few finding that a single dose can be a ‘booster’ for previously infected people.

A young relative (36) had Coronavirus, tested 15 December 2020, she was quite ill with fever sore throat etc for about 10 days.

She had her first vaccination at the end of January and was feverish and quite unwell for a couple of days. She had been warned by nurse this was a possibility.

However she was glad to have the vaccine and felt the temporary discomfort was a small price to pay in the scheme of things.

@Babdoc yes, she was. I actually requested an appointment because I've had ongoing joint pain since I had covid, like the aching part of having flu, and I assumed this could be attributed to long covid. She told me the term wasn't in any medical journals yet and most cases appeared to be anecdotal! Which is far from what I expected to hear! She brushed it off and emailed me some physio exercises with no follow up. I'm just repeating what she said, and fwiw I DO think my symptoms are connected to having covid as they started the day before I became unwell and continued throughout. I'm now 6 weeks post-virus and still having joint problems, weakness and fatigue.

KurtWilde your doctor doesn't have a clue if she doesn't know about long Covid. Our GP has referred OH to one of the clinics Babdoc refers to although we have no idea how long the wait will be. Your weakness and fatigue are symptoms of Long Covid if they don't clear up after a short time (as they do with flu usually.)

@sunshinesupermum this is what I assumed. After the exercises she sent didn't help I requested a phone appointment next week with a different GP at the practice, so I hope they'll be more open to discussion.

Bit late but just saw this, my dad had COVID very badly and was on a ventilator for 8 weeks he’s home now and getting better but he had his jab a couple of weeks ago, it made him exhausted the day after but was ok after that.

@sunshinesupermum

What I don't know is whether the long covid sufferer still has antibodies whilst suffering long covid.

No, in our experience he definitely doesn't have antibodies. When he had a test 3 month in he didn't have antibodies then, nor in the summer when he appeared clear of the virus. It was a no brainer for him to have the (Pfizer) vaccine and he had no ill effects from it.

I suspect we will all get used to having an annual jab just like we currently do with flu.

There is more to immunity than just antibodies and 95% have long lasting immunity with previous infection www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19 and are you suggesting that the whole population possibly including kids be vaccinated every year with experimental vaccines? for something that taking away the over 80s has a 0.02% chance of death? Lol