Coronavirus spike in my area

[TomorrowIsAnotherDae]

NHS-NoReply message yesterday telling people to get tested even if not showing symptoms. No need to make an appointment. Nothing at all in the local news or on NHS website about this.

Large Jewish community and the spike comes just after Purim. Neighbours who have gone for tests were told that there have been lots of gatherings (I witnessed one at the local Jewish Girls school late one night and reported, the police didn’t turn up). It’s Passover in a couple of weeks. I think that my area will end up in local lockdowns for quite a while.

This is on top of anti-vaxx leaflets being pushed through doors in my area telling people that the vaccine is dangerous, ineffective and has killed hundreds of people.

I’m pissed off and venting.

My god, is that actually happening in some areas? Anti-vaxx leaflets?! Who has the time or energy to feel that strongly about a vaccine, it baffles me. You don’t want it, fine. Don’t get it & move on with your life 🤷🏼‍♀️😩

That’s pretty shit OP. Can you move?!

Anti vax leaflets is awful.

It must be so hard to live right near large communities who are going about their daily business as they please and it's having a negative impact on you directly.

I guess there's no evidence the community are responsible for the spread?

I hope things improve quickly locally for you

@HolmeH I like where I live and my Jewish neighbours but there has been a real problem with large gatherings and misinformation being spread in the community.

I think I’m frustrated as Andy Burnham is banging on about how well GM is doing (we are tbf) but the large gatherings and general mixing within households within my area hasn’t been addressed and I don’t think it will be.

So sorry OP. Must be so awful to live in a place where so many people choose to ignore the rules and have such big get togethers.

@itsgettingwierd. I’m on a local committee and another member is involved in NHS trust meetings. There has been an marked increase in cases amongst the Jewish community recently.

Broughton, by any chance?!

@10storeylovesong - yes

[quote TomorrowIsAnotherDae]@itsgettingwierd. I’m on a local committee and another member is involved in NHS trust meetings. There has been an marked increase in cases amongst the Jewish community recently.[/quote]
Is the messaging available to them or are they just not engaging?

@itsgettingwierd. I don’t know for sure. Lack of engagement but also lifestyle I think, so no computers, tv, etc. so all children going to school throughout and no home schooling. I see some masks worn on buses and supermarkets, but not elsewhere (I’ve been wearing mine on walks). I don’t know about messaging, but no social media I guess and just whatever messages Rabbi and other senior members of the community choose to share.

How have they all been managing to go to school throughout? They cant all be key workers or vulnerable children or whatever the criteria was.

As a Jew I’m embarrassed by the behaviour of some members of the community during the pandemic - reports of large weddings etc and an approach that looks very much like unwillingness to adhere to gov’t advice. It’s not the entire population (obviously) but in a lot of the stricter sects/groups there is no media or internet access, no engagement with healthcare, education or other professionals outside of the community-sanctioned ones, sometimes limited English spoken, all guidance / leadership is given by a small group of religious leaders. Which some may argue is fine in itself but then those religious leaders have a responsibility to get the messaging across about how to stay safe during the pandemic.

Thanks for that information essential. It explains what I was asking very well.

There is certainly some work to be done with regards engaging with closed communities where it's necessary for public health.

But I guess there is the issues about why these communities are closed and operate their own community within a community in the first place? And if it's fear of governments or lack of belief in the system etc it's not an easy thing to tackle.

@lightand, they are very strict Hasidic Jews, so they don’t have laptops or computers for the children, or TV, etc. So the children can’t be taught remotely. All the Jewish schools in my area have been open throughout the last year.

But I guess there is the issues about why these communities are closed and operate their own community within a community in the first place?

It's complicated, and I'd emphasise that as a Reform Jew who "married out" I have more in common with your average middle-class metropolitan CoEer than this community, so I need to be careful in what I put across as fact.

One key issue, I'd suggest, is that daily life is communal - men come together in groups of at least 10 (10 is needed to be quorate, as it were) for daily prayer, there are loads of religious festivals which involve public celebration, it's normal for weddings and funerals to go into the hundreds. So that's a very different way of life which has been going for thousands of years. Stopping it, even for a pandemic, would be controversial.

Mistrust of secular authorities, absolute belief in religious leaders and a strong fatalism ("God will decide").

Hugely limited education and media access, combined with strong exclusion of people who want to leave the community - so it's difficult to access alternative voices and act on info even if you can access it.

There's also a lot of living in close quarters in these communities, which will do the obvious to covid cases.

There are probably lots of "communities within communities" in the UK and elsewhere, but in covid times some of the faultlines and limitations become glaring.

Out of interest, have covid deaths been high in that area, compared to other areas around, or nationally?

x post, but I guess the question still stands.

@itsgettingwierd I watched a documentary on Netflix called ‘One of Us’ about 3 ex-members of the Hasidic Jewish community from Brooklyn (I can recommend it). I think in that film they explained that Hasidic Jews maintain their closed community as a result of the Holocaust. It’s a form of protection.

My old boss right from the start (he is Jewish) had said it’s just not a thing in his community (lockdown) although I’m not in touch with him now so I don’t know how Purim went. He told me he would continue in a bubble with about 2-3 other families (like his wife’s sister etc) mainly for Shabbat once a week so not everyday.

He mentioned to me rates are really high in his area - I did feel like saying it could be cos everyone is still mixing in these rather large bubbles!

@EssentialHummus, thank you for explaining. It isn’t easy to engage with my Jewish neighbours and I would love to know more about them but they are mistrustful of non-Jewish people. I have tried a little, but have been brushed off.

Sometimes the kids behind my flats kick their ball into our gardens and it’s a bit sad that they seem fearful of asking if they can come and look for it (I do have some grumpy neighbours who have shouted at them) I’m the only person as far as I know who encourages them to come in and helps them look for missing balls.

It is within the ultra orthodox community and it’s a massive problem and I concur with everything you have said. I do however, want to stress that it’s not in the Jewish community as a whole where the Covid restrictions are taken extremely seriously both in the community and in education settings. The mainstream religious leaders including the chief rabbi are supporting the government messaging 100% and are doing their best to disseminate to the ultra orthodox community. Think it’s an important distinction

@lightand

Out of interest, have covid deaths been high in that area, compared to other areas around, or nationally?

We have the 2nd highest death rate in GM according to the M.E.N.

It doesn’t look too bad here?
coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map

[quote ThePricklySheep]It doesn’t look too bad here?
coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/interactive-map[/quote]
Showing an increase of 9.1% in the past week in my immediate area. Hopefully there will be a clampdown before Passover.

This was on BBC a little while ago. Infection rates second highest in the world after Manaus in Brazil!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55903096

Thank you essential

It's very good to learn about why others take their path and make decisions.

It's such a complex issue.