Mask wearing for years 5 and 6

[PandemicPalava]

My dd goes to a middle which has years 5-8 all mask wearing. Guidance is patchy for middle schools and our head has taken it as because the setting has year 7 and up, all pupils need to mask wear.

Does anyone else have children in a middle school? What is your school doing? I really want to draft a letter to the school as they were told off yesterday when they removed them even though they previously confirmed the mask wearing would be encouraged not enforced.

Any input gratefully received

@bigvig thank you. Exactly my point. No guidelines on masks means enforcing a year 5 to wear something science is unclear on against government guidance seems wrong. I just want to know why the head is enforcing it against DFE and government documentation.

I always thought only the N95 offer full protection and the others are a step towards a bit of protection but really as you say, a token.

If she school are that sure about it they need to put in something to insist on N95

[quote PandemicPalava]@ineedaholidaynow so how come all shops sell random material masks - fleece, towelling, Lycra - which aren't 3 layer? How can they possibly do that if they don't work? [/quote]
They are sold as face coverings. There is no guarantee or even suggestion that they work to prevent spread of covid.

In fact, way back in April before any of this was known, I bought some single layer ones from Wilko that explicitly stated they are not a medical device and should not be used for the purposes of preventing spread of disease.

The reason the school don't insist on a particular type is because our government have decided not to mandate the WHO advice for 3 layer masks.

The reason the school are unsure on guidance is because the guidance makes few references to middle schools and encourages them to take a "mixed approach."

@3isthemajicnumber thank you so so much, I agree completely. Dd is 10 and took her mask off multiple times for a drink as she realised this was the only way to get some fresh air and therefore touched it over and over again. There are good reasons kids so young aren't expected to.

I'm also all for masks etc so am sad the thread got derailed, but thanks to both of you for your responses. I'll look up the Facebook group now. Thank you

@Sbk28 and the mixed advice on everything has left is floundering about not knowing where to turn. What a mess. Thanks

[quote PandemicPalava]@AnaisNun the mask is a cotton backed with a non woven layer, so it doesn't have the layers my masks normally have - they are usually two layers of cotton with a filter pocket.

Also, there has never been a stipulation in this country as to what constitutes an appropriate mask, nor has there been any school guidance [/quote]
Many schools are now (ie as of this latest return to school) insisting on specific types of mask.
No school which is serious about safety precautions against Covid will be permitting something homemade. And if they are, it's a QED situation. They aren't interested in infection control.

Child in middle school. School have decided that mask wearing in lessons is optional for years five and six. Mandatory on entry into the school and when walking around corridors etc.

Years seven and eight compulsory mask wearing in lessons too.

Think that is a good approach.

@sbk28

The reasons shops are full of cloth ones is that retailers have, as retailers do, seen a chance for some extra revenue. At least one supposed theirs have been made under certain H&S regulations, unlike "here's one I made earlier"
Mass production also allows thinner, yet more viable fabrics to be used.
As I said, (and I started in a homemade cloth one) the paper ones are far far thinner, more comfortable and less obstructive. My school now insists on surgical or FFP2 but rumour has it it will change to FFP2 only as they're more efficient against variants.

[quote PandemicPalava]@Sbk28 and the mixed advice on everything has left is floundering about not knowing where to turn. What a mess. Thanks [/quote]
I defer to WHO.

Here is their advice : www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-children-and-masks-related-to-covid-19#:~:text=WHO%20and%20UNICEF%20advise%20that,transmission%20in%20the%20area.

For my part, as a Year 6 teacher, my class are not wearing masks. I cant see any reason why they wouldn't be able to manage, barring a few with sensory needs. I am glad they don't, because it's nice to see them smiling after all the time off school and I'm sure they like seeing their friends properly too. However, I did catch covid in the classroom in December, at the same time as at least 3 children and 5 staff members so don't believe that schools are particularly safe without additional control measures.

My point is that you seem to have decided you don't like this without accepting that there are risks to not wearing masks at this age. One 10 year old child in my class is suffering symptoms still 3 months later.

@PandemicPalava

Your thread has gone off on a bit of a tangent because you've got a well-known anti-masker on it.

Obviously, you'll just do what the school says. Nothing is perfect unfortunately, but fingers crossed your DD will get used to whatever the school decides.

Thank you for all of your replies, lots to be thinking about and lots of perspectives. I really haven't decided what I think should happen or why and your opinions have helped me question some things I took as given. Also good to hear from a teacher.

[quote PandemicPalava]@ChameleonClara the thread isn't about masks, it's abort guidance. I asked for guidance clarification. I'm not complaining about masks, I make them for a living! Ok all for them. It's the DFE and government. Guidance for middle schools I wanted to chat about [/quote]
You post on a public forum, people reply to what you post - the only priviso is they mustn't be rude or offensive.

You brought up the fact you are specially making single layer masks, no one would have known that if you hadn't said - you haven't got grounds for complaint when people reply to the things you choose to say, IMO.

the DfE have been called out several times on not having any guidance for mixed setting such as middle schools (or indeed upper schools). this was particularly stupid last year when they wouldn't allow any flexibility on which year groups returned in the summer.

Our local middle schools have only year 7 and 8 in masks but are keeping 5 and 6 away in very separate bubbles, allegedly.

DS's feeder middle school the kids wear masks in corridors but not lessons unless 7 and 8 . They are supposed to wear them on the bus regardless of year group they don't

Majority of 9 /10 year olds can learn to use a mask safely very easily. I’d be happy for my 8 year old to wear one in school as I know he can. He has learnt to use the straps and bag it for washing after wear. I would think year 5 plus would be fine with guidance from teacher and parents.

@ChameleonClara oh I know, I was trying to get it round to what I was discussing. And yes I did open up the floor to that, I do get it's a public forum. I hate it when people moan about comments made in a public forum, I just wanted it back to discussion of guidance. Maybe I should start a new thread

@Piggywaspushed this is what I don't get. 5 and 6 are in a separate block, no mixing at all, they may as well be in a different school

@TheDrsDocMartens I agree, but that's what I think has been missed. Maybe they need a training session in school

My Y5 child goes to a school for 8-13s and only the Y7s and Y8s are asked to wear a mask. Most of the older children are wearing a mask, but a small number are not. If a parent says their Y7/8 child cannot wear a mask, the school has to accept it.
The majority of parents have accepted it for the older children, but I think there would be a mass avoidance of mask wearing was extended to the younger pupils.

@Piggywaspushed I remember the return to school was a complete mess due to no flexibility for middle schools, transitioning years (dd was leaving primary and they weren't allowed to have them in even though the logic was those transitioning could)

Throughout the DFE have been piss poor at recognising 3 tier

@Enidblyton1 we are 1 day in and there is a lot of talk about how many parents really aren't happy with it. I'm on the fence but my dd is fine with mask wearing.

Re the mask type, you have all given me food for thought. I need to do some reading.

The ones I make are essentially 3 layer (2 cotton and a filter) and dd has a single interfacing backed one, which is open to debate as we have seen. However, I am now wondering as a school why they haven't chosen to be proactive and make a mask type rule if they are making classroom mask wearing school wide which suggests they are massively concerned about safety

[quote PandemicPalava]@ChameleonClara oh I know, I was trying to get it round to what I was discussing. And yes I did open up the floor to that, I do get it's a public forum. I hate it when people moan about comments made in a public forum, I just wanted it back to discussion of guidance. Maybe I should start a new thread [/quote]
I would just plough on, and ignore the derailers (like myself now!)

[quote PandemicPalava]@Enidblyton1 we are 1 day in and there is a lot of talk about how many parents really aren't happy with it. I'm on the fence but my dd is fine with mask wearing. [/quote]
I think mine would be ok with mask wearing too, if she had to. But this would concern me slightly. My Y5 child is very quiet and the mask would give her an opportunity to hide in class. I know that’s a potential issue for a child of any age, but I think being able to see faces during lessons is possibly more important the younger the child is.
I hadn’t thought about it before your thread, but I definitely think I’d ask for my Y5 to be exempt if she was asked to wear a mask.

I want my year 6 DD to wear a mask, she wants to but won't while the teachers aren't as she doesn't feel it's allowed (even though I've told her it's fine she thinks she'll be penalised for doing so). The girl she sits next to also wants to wear a mask and was the only one in class yesterday wearing one at all, for about 5 mins until the peer (and to be fair teacher) pressure got to her and she took it off.

One 10 year old child in my class is suffering symptoms still 3 months later.

I really think it's dreadful, there is no reason children in that class couldn't wear masks - there are a couple of kids with medical conditions that could make them more susceptible and they're being totally thrown under the bus. It's very crowded in that classroom. If covid gets in there it will spread.

It's supposed to be a Christian school yet they won't even put up with a minor inconvenience to protect the most vulnerable.

MOST countries have kids in masks from age 6. Their children have no problems, and even those few who can't wear masks end up being protected by the majority wearing them.

I teach at a 5-12 school in Aus and for the last period of mask wearing 5/6s didn't have to wear masks. It was a nightmare to police as teachers didn't know who was in those years.

No mask for my y 4 private school DD she’s in middle school . I’m not aware of the older ones having to either . The school goes up to y 6 . My DS in GCSE y now has to wear it inside classroom as well where as before it was outside the classroom in public areas I think .