Nursery not following guidelines

[Lockdwonfever]

I work in a nursery and I’m getting really concerned over the way they’re handling covid guidelines. I can’t bring it up with management. I’ve tried and just get fobbed off.
Basically we’re only not letting children in if they’ve got really high temperatures. We’ve had children who feel hot to touch, and don’t seem themselves, but unless their temperature exceeds the magic number on the very unreliability and temperamental thermometer then they won’t get sent home.
Coughs are fine apparently as they’re just colds. There are so many coughing children at the moment. Which then Resulted in a coughing adult, who was still in work, clearly unwell.
I actually don’t think it’s covid spreading as more adults would have caught it and got unwell by now but it’s extremely bad practice.
Does anybody else have experience of working in schools? Everyone else I know says they’re sending them home for so much as a hint of a cough.

Oh wow that is the other end to what school here are saying
We are to keep home for any of these even if just one

Runny nose
Headache
Head cold symptoms
Temperature
Cough
Change or loss of taste and/or smell
Faituge
Muscle aches
Shortness of breath

Sore throa

I don’t work in one but I have daughters in two different nurseries.

We aren’t allowed to send them with a cough (the odd cough in the day is fine but not continuous) but if the child tests negative, then they can go back in with the cough. As they would have always been allowed to do in normal times.

At my youngests nursery, we aren’t allowed to give them calpol in the morning in case it masks a fever. If a child has a fever of 37.9, we are rung & asked to collect and test. At my oldests nursery, no mention of no calpol but same procedure.

We are allowed to send both girls into their nurseries with colds & runny noses. In normal times & now, we are not to send them if they are lethargic & clearly under the weather & couldn’t join in normal activities.

Are the coughing children being tested & that’s why they are allowed back in? Warm to the touch is not a fever, children get warm from running around, too many layers etc.. your nursery aren’t doing anything wrong by not acting unless a temp is 37.9 or above. That’s a fever & indicates an infection potentially. It’s pretty irresponsible of parents to send obviously unwell children into nursery at any time 🤷🏼‍♀️

The issue is that unless they're clearly burning up, what feels a bit warm to one person is hot to another. A thermometer is a more consistent measure across all staff, though you should have one that is accurate. There seems to be lack of clarity on what constitutes a new, persistent cough. If they're coughing and spluttering all day then you're right, if it's snotty kids coughing a couple of times in the morning and then again in the afternoon then the advice i was given by my GP was that's not persistent.

Speaking of secondary schools I work with it's a case of a temperature (usually students tell staff and them nominated first aiders can take a temperature) or a persistent cough gets a student sent home. If they report smell or taste changes then that too, but that hasn't come up as much.

As far as im aware (and we’ve been open throughout) we’ve never sent a child home. I could be wrong as I’m not there everyday. There may have been a couple sent home with temperatures early on.
We haven’t really had any temperatures, which is strange, or parents are keeping them home for a day or two whilst they’ve got them.
But the coughs... oh my goodness. Yes they are continuous nee coughs. Sometimes accompanying an obvious cold, sometimes just a random cough. I really wish they’d send them home. But if they don’t have a cough AND a temperature then they won’t because they’re sure it’s just a cold.
As I said, even staff. We go through all these rigorous health test forms and temperature taking but once in the doors it’s just ignored. As You have to confirm prior to entering that you’re free from symptoms but if you say “no actually I feel like shit and have a sore throat and a cough” you’re expected to work anyway.
This is a fairly well known franchise nursery so I wonder if they’re all like it.

@HolmeH No they’re not being tested. Just allowed in with coughs and it’s just ignored.
I understand the temperature thing but if a child’s unwell and got to touch (we know them well enough to know they’re running a slight temperature) but it doesn’t meet the actual threshold for a proper fever, we’re keeping that child in. To me that child has a temperature, above their normal temp and is unwell.

OP my DS nursery is so strict with it, temp when DD goes in, if a temp home and isolate for 10 days 🙈
Cough wise, they do come with colds, DD is 18 months and gets a cold every 6 weeks, she gets a cough too... and does at the min.
Nursery note how times they cough in an hour and raise it with us when we collect.... it is up to us as parents as to whether we think Covid.

Persistent all day coughs. In your face. I’d say there’s about 4 children doing this currently. None have temperatures. A couple have runny noses. The others are perfectly fine other than the cough.

Got to touch is what it states on the nhs website for covid. But obviously a thermometer is more accurate. But we know individual children and if they seem unwell and feel hot you just know. Like with your own children. They might be slightly under the threshold but still have a raised temp

@Lockdwonfever

I'm also a nursery teacher. We are testing ourselves twice a week using lateral flow tests, as per guidelines. Are you not doing this?

My DS is at nursery and has asthma. Between October and March he coughs almost continuously. I’ve tested him 6 times this winter for exacerbated coughs (some that have come with colds, some that have coincided with very cold weather). I couldn’t possibly test him any more than I have done-it’s starting to become traumatic.

I test. He’s negative. He goes back to nursery the next day. I can’t believe that NONE of the parents at your nursery are testing similarly?

No we’re private so not entitled to staff tests.

@AnaisNun We’ve had the odd parent keep them off for tests. My issue isn’t with parents, but the nursery. They are not asking parents to test children with coughs, they’re happy to accept them so unless parent initiates it, they will be in with no test just coughing away making staff feel very uncomfortable. We are not all young as people believe, we have over 50’s too.

Not a single cough, sniffle nor fever at DS's preschool; it's been very pleasant, it's a shame the little ones are expected to be ill all the time at some places (there are nurseries and parents like that around here too). To be fair, I think it's also that primaries are closed reducing bug transfer and the parents wouldn't take them in and not just staff testing. I think there's always been a difference in attitude between shorter day pre-schools and 11 hour/day nurseries about what's an acceptable level of illness to attend, that's just exacerbated now.

I don't really know what to suggest OP, it's really hard but maybe the best you can do is to stand your ground to the managers about individual kids "no, this one is really coughing and needs a test".

@Lockdwonfever as of last week you can obtain your own LFT’s if you work or live with children

www.gov.uk/order-coronavirus-rapid-lateral-flow-tests

Sadly your workplace appear to be lacking here, I’ve noticed that if the management team in workplaces aren’t bothered then restriction rules are often ignored/lazily implemented. Happened at my ex-workplace till we had an outbreak

Low community case numbers are in your favour here but do protect yourself and encourage your colleagues to take advantage of LFT’s if they’re able. It’s difficult to take on management/workplaces when your not in a position of power but you would be more than within your rights to question their covid policies here. I’m not sure who you could escalate to (Ofsted? PHE? CQC?) but I completely understand why you might not feel able to.

My dd’s primary school have their covid policies published on their website, it’d be an interesting exercise to compare your local nurseries and primary schools.

I’ve just realised that link talks specifically about school age children. I admit I’d get some anyway in your situation.

My DSs (4.5/1.5) are at a private nursery. Pre-Covid, if a child had a fever but wasn't too unhappy, they'd give Calpol and observe, but will no longer do that. I'm not sure whether they define fever as just feeling hot or if they use a thermometer, as somehow mine have avoided getting a fever all year.

Coughs on the other hand... DS2 has been coughing on and off for months, been tested numerous times and seen the doctor a couple of times too. Usually I've tested proactively as he's started it on a day when he's with me, in which case I just tell nursery and email them the test result. On a couple of occasions they've told us at pickup that his cough has seemed worse and could we retest before sending him back. Overall I've been really pleased with them.

On one level it’s knowing your children. We have a little one who coughs due to asthma but if a child who never coughs suddenly started we’d be asking for a test to be sure.

We haven’t had any COVID cases at our nursery but have sent children home with temperatures and coughs if they seem more extreme. All have tested and been negative thank goodness. We do have lots with general cold symptoms like runny noses which is normal for time of year. Unfortunately the whole industry has been left very unprotected throughout the pandemic.

We also can’t get onsite LFT as we’re a private nursery and whilst we can all have access to the ones in town there is significant travel involved for many of us and inconvenient bus times. That said, I have been able to order some now as I have school age children.

Op I was doing bank work at a nursery last year and they were only sending children home if they had a high temperature, so there were a lot of coughing children all day but apparently it was okay because they didn't have a high temperature. They were also supposed to be in bubbles but they mixed rooms all the time

Re-the lateral flow tests - anyone can actually order them. I have a pre-school aged kid & I think it’s ridiculous we aren’t included. So I ticked the box to say yes, I had a school aged kid & I have my tests!

Both our nurseries are private OP & they are lateral flow testing twice a week. All my friends private nurseries are too. I think this is just bad management by your nursery unfortunately..

@stripes416 sounds like my place

I’ve got school age children so have ordered some home tests

@HolmeH Unless it has very recently changed, which I think was being rumoured. Private nurseries are not being sent tests for their staff to test twice a week. They’re only entitled to them by visiting a local centre which our manager won’t let us do during working hours. Bit difficult for the people that are there 45 hours a week

Definitely bad management though, you’re right.