To ask if this is true (vaccine related)

[crochetmonkey74]

I had my covid vaccine last week with mild side effects, I know several people who have now had it, with a range of severity of the side effects. A friend said she heard that the severity of side effects mirrors how badly you would have had covid , had you caught it. I've tried to Google this but no luck and although I understand how vaccines work, I don't have a good enough understanding of them to work out if this can logically be true. Is this right?

I do find it worrying that you are seeking "truth" from people's opinions rather than asking if anyone had any links to good research by scientists.

I've not had Covid, mid 30s. I did have a flu-like reaction to the vaccine 24 hours after being vaccinated. After a day in bed, I'm myself again. Despite comparisons, the main point to consider is that the vaccine effects are temporary (although they do last longer for a smaller number). There is no concern that I might get worse and end up in hospital, or get long covid, or pass it on to my ECV husband, etc etc. Covid has worse outcomes, even if the case was that most people who vaccinated suffer the usual side effects. I've a 23 year old cousin who did end up in hospital. She has long Covid. Two cousins my age have long covid. I don't have to necessarily worry about that after a vaccination. All I can do is hope that the new variants aren't an issue/we keep them under control.

I work in public health so got the jab early so I can start going out into the community again, and because of people's experiences with side effects, many are listening to that and swearing themselves off the jab.

Nah, it's bollocks. DP only had a sore arm (and not even very sore) for a couple of days, and covid absolutely floored him this time last year.

@crochetmonkey74

Good lord some people are so hostile on here to people who just want to chat. Literally no one on this thread has exhibited worrying or extreme anti vaccine ideas. This site is meant to be for people to talk and reach out and explore ideas.

OP I am sure you are posting in good faith, but unfortunately these boards are used by people wishing to spread misinformation.

You have had some good advice from people who have backed up their explanations and I hope that it is these that you take away and that you are feeling reassured.

Zzzoom I was opening a chat as I would do at work or with a group of friends. I dont use mumsnet as an encyclopedia, or to inform my opinions. I use it to chat and explore ideas.
Anyway it's been interesting to hear everyone's experiences. Thanks to the posters who linked to studies etc

Haven't read the whole thread so don't know if already been said.

The side effects from the vaccines is ALL due to your immune system.

No side effects DOESN'T mean your immune system ISN'T working.

People with stronger immune systems more likely to experience side effects.

Think of it like someone carrying a pot of water across a room. Someone who takes it slow and steady is less likely to spill any than someone who runs. The spills are like the side effects. BOTH reach the other side of the room with a pot full of water.

As for the severity of covid infection itself - nobody knows what governs this - whether it's genetic, or related to initial dose, or something else, or all of the above! We know risk increases with age, but beyond that..... and we also have no idea what triggers long-covid where age OR initial infection severity doesn't seem to be a factor.

Finally, if you've already had covid, then a vaccine will be like a booster shot for your immune system.

It's probably one of those things that are plucked off social medial and takes arms and legs I wouldn't read too much into it

Absolutely this. You see the same things get repeated again and again, gaining more traction and weight each time - because the more people say something like it's a fact the more it sounds like a fact; the more we see things repeated, the more we are likely to believe them. But it doesn't mean it's true - people just like sounding as if they're knowledgeable.

People need to stop repeating anecdotes and personal experience as if it's actual research.

It’s the same with the flu vaccine & weirdly for me, I get side effects some years & nothing others. Just because you don’t get any does not mean you’ve had a worse immune reaction than someone who has terrible ones.

Look at medication. Everyone reacts differently for no obvious reason. The list of side effects of paracetamol is huge but most people get none. But someone must or they wouldn’t be on the list! Lowest dose Codeine makes me throw up horribly but my other half can happily tolerate much stronger painkillers!

I'd say it is a measure of how.well your immune system is working . When an immune system kicks in against a virus that is often what causes the symptoms .

This complety non scientifically based personal opinion is based on the fact that side effects seem more common in younger patients and in those that have had Covid before or who are having a second vaccine .

If you already have some antibodies,( via a precious infection or vaccine ) the second time you stimulate the immune system it probably kicks in more strongly at first so you may get stronger symptoms than you might otherwise but they should not last long as the immune system gets the better of the virus . That is my very unscientific personal opinion ( probably complete rubbish of course)

based on the fact that side effects seem more common in younger patients and in those that have had Covid before or who are having a second vaccine

Is this actually fact though? Where is the research to support these claims?

No that's not true.

However people with stronger side effects obviously have a stronger immune response. That's an advantage surely.

I think it's important to be really clear that more side effects does not equal a stronger immune response. Similarly a lack of side effects does not indicate a lower antibody response.

However people with stronger side effects obviously have a stronger immune response. That's an advantage surely - @Willyoujustbequiet

I think it's important to be really clear that more side effects does not equal a stronger immune response. Similarly a lack of side effects does not indicate a lower antibody response - @PurpleWh1teGreen

Presumably both posters believe what they have posted which proves how useless these kinds of unscientific thread are.

I would think it has more to do with individual immune systems. We all have a colleague who is at deaths door with the same cold strain that gives everyone else a slight sniff. Or the person who ends up with lumps like boiled eggs after a midge bite.
The immediate reaction to any antigen in the body is to mount an inflammatory reaction followed by the rest of the cascade of defences. Antibody production is the last function and takes a number of weeks.
Whether you have side effects or not has probably nothing to do with the effectiveness of the vaccine or whether you have had the virus before. I have had various strains of flu but have only ever had side effects from the first swine flu vaccine I was given, but that was because I had a sore throat and was coming down with a cold the day I had the vaccine.
There is also the psychological aspect, one persons sniffle is another persons double pneumonia, all very subjective I’m afraid. I may have had a temp and felt a bit fluey after my vaccine but on my scale of “is it a show stopper or just ignore it” it was a “ignore it”.

@notrub @bumblingbovine49

No having a strong response to a vaccine does not mean you have a stronger immune system. We don’t know why some people get side effects from some vaccines and others don’t.

STOP MAKING THINGS UP FFS, there is enough false information circulating - we don’t need a much of people thinking their vaccine hasn’t worked, or a bunch of people thinking their first shot worked so well they don’t need the second. Vaccine update is a serious issue right now.

Presumably both posters believe what they have posted which proves how useless these kinds of unscientific thread are

Exactly, and yet people will continue to repeat it around the place as if it's the truth.

STOP MAKING THINGS UP FFS, there is enough false information circulating

🙌 I am so tired and irritated at the number of times someone posts something as if it's fact, with the opening statement 'I've read a few times that ...' Something being posted by someone trying to sound smart and then repeated around mumsnet by other people wanting to sound reassuring does not make something true. It is really dangerous

What I find interesting is that Zoe is reporting more side effects to the vaccine among women. And we know that men are more likely to be severely affected by Covid than women.

Is there something to be learned from this about the different immune responses of male and female bodies? Can some clever scientist use it for infections and diseases in future?

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/covid-vaccine-pfizer-effects

This is an explanation from Zoe.

While they may make you feel grotty, all these effects are a sign that your immune system is kicking into action to protect you from COVID-19.

At the same time, don’t worry if you don’t experience any of these effects after your vaccine. Your immune system will still be learning to respond to the virus - it’s just not making a fuss about it.‍

it’s absolutely not true. Side effects are more common in under 50’s with AstraZeneca yet we know that over 50’s are more at risk of severe Covid.

[quote partyatthepalace]**@notrub* @bumblingbovine49*

No having a strong response to a vaccine does not mean you have a stronger immune system. We don’t know why some people get side effects from some vaccines and others don’t.

STOP MAKING THINGS UP FFS, there is enough false information circulating - we don’t need a much of people thinking their vaccine hasn’t worked, or a bunch of people thinking their first shot worked so well they don’t need the second. Vaccine update is a serious issue right now.[/quote]
Actually my post clearly states that mine is an opinion and is not based on fact or any real scientific evidence so I feel entitled to post whatever opinion I have. I have NOT stated it as any sort of fact . The only fact or evidence I refer to is that you get people seem to get more side effects as do people who have already had Covid. My post also makes it clear that I am more thinking out loud and that none of my conclusions are anything other than my thoughts on possibilities

On rereading what I wrote I think most of is still a reasonable assumption but I am clear it is my assumption. I am definitely not saying that if you don't have side effect the vaccine doesn't work

You might want to improve your reading comprehension skills going forward.

There is no point having an opinion about a scientific and measurable matter unless you have proper evidence.

I've heard a few different theories. I can't see how any of them can be logical really.

I had my vaccine yesterday and have felt really terrible, especially over night.

@Downthefarm

There is no point having an opinion about a scientific and measurable matter unless you have proper evidence.

I have never heard such a ridiculous statement in my life. That rules out the majority of most people's conversations and their reality. In any case my speculation was base on some evidence and was clearly phrased as such

Some anecdata.

DW & I (both 50-55 ) are Covid negative. Had AZ jab and neither of us had any real effects.

Next door neighbours - both 35-45. Had Covid last year badly. Both had the AZ jab over a month ago. No real effects either.

DB (45-50) - Covid negative - had pfizer jab last week. 48 hours of unpleasant but manageable side effects.

DF (80+) - Covid negative - had AZ jab last month. No real effects either.

@ijokeijoke

My friend told me that if you react badly to the vaccine, it means you have already had covid. 🤷🏼‍♀️ who knows

A friend of mine told me similar although it was just general findings made in their work environment (ie the hospital wards) the ones who had confirmed covid seemed to have been more ill after the vaccine than those who hadn't had covid