Why do people keep saying this?

[Stalagmitesstalagtites]

We’re going to keep being in lockdown, how? Why? How would they justify this after vaccines here, and why would they do that?

if they have guests around to meet outdoors, they should mark out 2 metres with broomsticks, set alarms to wash their hands every 45 minutes, and suggest that overweight men over 50 bring their own cutlery

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Amusing as those suggestion sound, they are all way more logical and backed by science than anything that has come from our government! Definitely the safest way to meet people currently

Because for some reason there are many calling for zero covid, which just isn't realistic. I would not be surprised if we were in lockdown again next autumn/winter as cases will inevitably rise with the season just as flu does. I mean a city in New Zealand went into lockdown because of one case.....one.
We already hear about variants and whether the vaccine will be resistant to it, which is also a condition of the 'roadmap' going ahead as planned.
I am trying to be positive, but from the farce I have seen this past year I think it unlikely lockdowns are over.

because as recommended on another thread, i looked at the rest of europe,
the rates are worse than they were

Their vaccine rollout is not comparable to ours

Hazelnutlatteplease said ...
‘The government have gambled. They have opened schools way early. Only time will tell if that will pay off or result in further virus mutations and vaccines escape.’

Rubbish!
Secondary school children (the ones blamed for the spread) are being tested TWICE a week in order to go to school as well as wearing masks ALL DAY now. How many times are you being tested and most other adults outside of direct caring and health professions?

The ones who are risking keeping us trapped in this stupid cycle of rising cases followed by panic responses are the government who won't bloody invest in the right systems to control it.

With this virus cases are either rising or falling (the mathematical possibility of flatlining for any period is remote in reality).

All I want is steps to make them fall. Happy for that to be slowly, so the impact of measures is low.

The government has opted for rising cases again, which is why the SAGE modelling for cases/deaths is not great over summer and into autumn.

@Hazelnutlatteplease

if they have guests around to meet outdoors, they should mark out 2 metres with broomsticks, set alarms to wash their hands every 45 minutes, and suggest that overweight men over 50 bring their own cutlery

🤣🤣🤣🤣 Amusing as those suggestion sound, they are all way more logical and backed by science than anything that has come from our government! Definitely the safest way to meet people currently

It was from last summer when there were few restrictions about meeting outdoors, so no it wasn't based on 'the science'.

And the government's decisions are informed by scientists with way more expertise than a hunky TV doctor with no background in virology or epidemiology.

@ChameleonClara

The ones who are risking keeping us trapped in this stupid cycle of rising cases followed by panic responses are the government who won't bloody invest in the right systems to control it.

With this virus cases are either rising or falling (the mathematical possibility of flatlining for any period is remote in reality).

All I want is steps to make them fall. Happy for that to be slowly, so the impact of measures is low.

The government has opted for rising cases again, which is why the SAGE modelling for cases/deaths is not great over summer and into autumn.

What measures in place for falling?

The objective is keep hospitalisation at ok rate to avoid reversing.

The lockdowns are to PROTECT THE NHS. They are not, nor have they ever been, to get Covid levels down to zero.

Vaccines alone should protect the NHS from being swamped in future, so unless a mutation occurs that gets around the protection provided by vaccines we should not have to lockdown again. Thank god!

The illogical thing is not having decent non-lockdown controls (basically revamping test, trace isolate so it works) is what makes lockdown in future more likely.

It is the covid deniers who drive us to panic measures in the end.

Lockdown is for when you've failed. So let's stop failing.

The real world data is looking better than the trials.

Scientists have repeatedly explained that the vaccines can be tweaked for new variants if they are not effective (and for now they are). Unless the government are in the mood to scare us in to submission then they don’t reveal this.

Hopefully these people will shut up soon. In summer there will be nothing left for them to moan about.

Yep lockdown is an extreme measure that should really only be used once. You are very much failing in every area as a country if you find yourself in the fourth/fifth lockdown.

@Delatron

The real world data is looking better than the trials.

Scientists have repeatedly explained that the vaccines can be tweaked for new variants if they are not effective (and for now they are). Unless the government are in the mood to scare us in to submission then they don’t reveal this.

Hopefully these people will shut up soon. In summer there will be nothing left for them to moan about.

Yep

Vaccines alone should protect the NHS from being swamped in future

We have been told repeatedly that vaccination alone will not be enough.

We have been told that vaccinations will do the “heavy lifting” rather than lockdowns. And yat the vaccines are even more amazing than was first thought!

new variants according to people who seem to know more about all this than I do.

the reduction in infections seems to being put down to the vaccines when the lockdown could well account for it

You must have been listening to different press conferences to me then, because two weeks running I’ve heard Whitty and Vallance say that it’s too early to say whether vaccines are having an impact on infections.

The reduction in infections probably is primarily down to lockdown. The reduction in deaths is quicker than the reduction in infections, and quicker in older age groups than younger ones. These are the signs of vaccine effectiveness in the real world.

Remember that each week we delay opening up, another 4-5% or so of the population get vaccinated. We are already over 30% of the population vaccinated, plus another however many having immunity from infection. We are now starting mass administration of 2nd doses, which will add a bit more protection, but mostly longer term protection to those who have it.

It is not going to be many weeks before we start to see big effects from vaccination. I think that’s why the 5 week interval between loosening stages is as it is. Another 20% of the population protected means you can allow people to mix more while keeping the lid on infection rates.

Vaccines + proper TTI (UK does not have currently) + targeted efforts in schools/hotspots/problem industries + border scrutiny (not closures) should = falling cases and happy days.

Vaccines alone = ????

Vaccines do the heavy lifting is not the same as 'vaccine solve all our problems'.

I want the UK to succeed at this. I'm just not sure we have the right government to make it happen.

Well the vaccines better bloody work, because people aren't going to tolerate being locked down much longer and once everyone is vaccinated it's game over.

Just look at the data out from the ONS on how the over 80s are behaving once they've had their two doses - half of them are already ignoring lockdown and socialising indoors.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronavirusandvaccineattitudesandbehavioursinengland/over80spopulation15februaryto20february2021

If the NHS cannot cope when we are all vaccinated and if it is STILL not doing anything else then it is not fit for purpose.

I mean a city in New Zealand went into lockdown because of one case.....one.

Do you understand exponential growth?

There are suggestions that a single infected person can infect 20 others. If each of those 20 infect another 20, you're up to 400 in a couple of weeks.

Look at Isle Of Man. They have 50 cases arising from a single ferry worker.

The magical "R" number isn't what people think it is. It's an average. So one person can infect 20 others, but not everyone infects anyone else at all. An "R" of 1 just means the overall number of new infections stays the same, ie. 10,000 today, 10,000 yesterday, but the cumulative effect is 70,000 in a week, etc. That's why "R" has to be as near zero as possible - Zero doesn't mean no one gets infected, it means there isn't the exponential growth.

[quote zafferana]Well the vaccines better bloody work, because people aren't going to tolerate being locked down much longer and once everyone is vaccinated it's game over.

Just look at the data out from the ONS on how the over 80s are behaving once they've had their two doses - half of them are already ignoring lockdown and socialising indoors.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronavirusandvaccineattitudesandbehavioursinengland/over80spopulation15februaryto20february2021[/quote]
What proportion of young people are socialising indoors? I would imagine it's pretty similar. Difference is the oldies are probably having a 1 to 1 cup of tea whereas the youngsters are having parties etc. Which is more likely to make cases rise??

I wasn't knocking old people @Kazzyhoward, I was using what they're doing now that they're vaccinated as an example of what's going to happen when all age groups are vaccinated.

People just aren't going to tolerate being told to stay at home once they've had their vaccines.

Because people dont trust the scientists.

Because they listen to the media.

Because people think there is a conspiracy that the goverment wants to keep us locked down forever.

Hospital admissions and deaths are still declining though there are variants. Booster jabs will be made for the variants.
As a PP has already said, lockdowns should have been a short term fix. The fact we are in our third lockdown goes to show how we have failed as a country.

No idea what restrictions are staying or going but saw something saying that we need to get numbers low enough to give Track and Trace and chance to be successful at dealing with outbreaks - including new variants for which we don’t yet know the efficacy of the vaccines. I guess keeping going with this lockdown for a bit longer now might mean less chance of nation wide lockdowns later in may be? Just speculating though.

@RosieLemonade

If the NHS cannot cope when we are all vaccinated and if it is STILL not doing anything else then it is not fit for purpose.

bit weird. If people are getting ill how is that the fault of the NHS? That would mean the vaccine hadn't had the impact.