Is it right vaccines get all the credit?

[YogaLite]

Am I the only one doubting this?

We know covid went through the older population - some of them sadly died, some recovered, some were asymptomatic (I know of 2 cases, tested for antibodies).

The same (alive) population has now been vaccinated without checking for antibodies so it's not impossible to say that some may have had antibodies anyway.

Is it now right to give vaccines all the credit?

Does it matter? Surely it doesnt matter how they get protection from the virus as long as they have the protection.

Who cares? People who developed the vaccine deserve a lot of "credit" because they've done a great job. Its not like there is anyone else who should deserve that "credit". If some people had antibodies anyway, that doesn't make the achievement of the scientists any less, does it?

Who else should get the credit, the antibodies? I'm sure they'll be thrilled

Of course some had antibodies, especially in care homes. But a lot of retirees have essentially shielded since March last year - they won't have antibodies.

Credit? That is a badly messed up way to think about it. Pretty much on a par with thinking it’s wrong that warmer weather is getting credit for bringing the garden on.

I am not denying credit to the science, I am looking for a balanced view in the media.

Without antibody testing before and after, it's not possible to confirm vax efficacy in the vulnerable population.

I agree it doesn't matter in the short term, let's get out of the need. In the longer term it would be a shame to have not analysed it properly and missed opportunities to learn more about the immune system and community spread.

Let's get out of the mess

I would think scientists want to eventually understand what was effective and what wasn't.

I think that would be the case if Covid was in the general population now anyway, which it isn't. No one in my family except for one at uni has had Covid yet. We go for tests and a couple of us have had antibody tests, so we know this for sure. Between us we've all distanced, shielded, been miserable bloody hermits or been able to take precautions at work. I can pretty much pick out at least one or two amongst us who are certain not to survive if they get Covid. The reason the death rate is dropping is a combination of distancing and vaccine, as only a relatively small minority would have the naturally spreaded antibodies.

Well as lockdown eases we'll find out soon enough won't we. If it wasn't all down to vaccines then watch the rates rise. If vaccines have indeed done the heavy lifting infection should continue to fall in those groups who have had it.

Maybe, or maybe it continues to drop off in a similar way to other countries that haven't had such strict lockdown and aren't far on in rolling out the vaccination.

Why do we need to be doling out ‘credit’?

Vaccines are clearly a big part of why the situation is improving. There are other factors of course. Not sure what else there is to say.

I was talking to a naturally acquired antibody the other day and it was really annoyed about how vaccine is getting all the credit. It said it doesn’t know why it bothers.

Well given a lot of the early research is showing that those who have been vaccinated are a lot less likely to become severely ill or die then yes we can give some of the “credit” to the vaccine.

And to say “well it could be the antibodies” would be a dangerous message for the media to give out given then some people would say they aren’t getting the vaccine as they may have antibodies and we don’t know the impact they have long term

🤣

Vaccines have reduced deaths from Covid by approx 90%, that's worth plenty of credit!

People following lockdown rules can also claim some credit for reducing the infection rate.

I don’t care who or what I’m praising as long as we can finally come out of this lockdown and I can take my 1year old daughter out to essentially see the world for the first time... in over a year since she’s been born.

I wonder what she’ll make of the zoo? I wonder how she’ll find swimming? What about going to a pub or restaurant with all the noisy chatter and plates clattering. I cannot wait to experience all of this with her. I never got to take our new baby out to show her off to the world. It’s long over due and I just might think I’ll cry when it eventually comes around.

The end is near! (I hope)

@YogaLite

Am I the only one doubting this?

We know covid went through the older population - some of them sadly died, some recovered, some were asymptomatic (I know of 2 cases, tested for antibodies).

The same (alive) population has now been vaccinated without checking for antibodies so it's not impossible to say that some may have had antibodies anyway.

Is it now right to give vaccines all the credit?

It's a moot point surely because natural herd immunity would have taken a v long time and likely led to the development of new variants. The vaccine gets credit for being quick, avoiding the population becoming a Petri dish where mutated strains can run riot and as a bonus, doesn't cause serious illness or an around 0.5% chance of death. Win.

The ONS is running regular serology (antibody) surveys to estimate the proportion of people in different age groups who have previously had the virus.

Credit?

I don't understand the point you're trying to make.

If you mean that by ascribing any success against covid to vaccines means that other contributing factors will be overlooked then

a) we could offer a MN Medal of Honour

b) there's a lot of ongoing research into many variables, across many cohorts. This will be a longitudinal, global data collection. There's a lot to learn from this, it won't be ignored.

Today 09:17 YogaLite

I am not denying credit to the science, I am looking for a balanced view in the media.

Without antibody testing before and after, it's not possible to confirm vax efficacy in the vulnerable population.“

It was confirmed on Monday by both PH Scotland and England after very large studies that Pfizer and AZ vaccines have incredibly high efficacy, 85 and 94% respectively I believe, as opposed to those unvaccinated. As I understand it, in the PH Scotland study 1 million unvaccinated and vaccinated were followed for several weeks. Not sure of the size of the PHE cohort.

Not a scientist myself but that suggests to me that the unvaccinated group had low if any antibodies and therefore gives a pretty clear indication?

Anyway, does it really matter? Brilliant news, much better than we could have dared hope for.

@CheeseJalapenoBread

I was talking to a naturally acquired antibody the other day and it was really annoyed about how vaccine is getting all the credit. It said it doesn’t know why it bothers.

By your argument, If most people - including elderly people in care homes - already had antibodies in November/December, why were deaths so high in January?

Are you a shill for Big Antibody?

If you’ve vaccinated the over eighties but not the seventy-somethings, and deaths and hospitalisations plummet in the over eighties and not in the seventy-somethings then it would seem perverse to suggest that antibodies are doing all the heavy lifting in the octogenarians but not bothering to take effect in slightly younger people.

If we know who’s been vaccinated and who hasn’t, and when, and we know who’s been hospitalised and who hasn’t then it’s really not that tricky to come to a conclusion on the effectiveness of vaccination. Why on earth would you think we can’t do that?