Would a Phased Return Even Make Schools Much Safer

[manicinsomniac]

even if that 'side' wins and achieves a staggered start for schools?

I'm struggling to see much benefit. Let's say secondary schools let the odd numbered year groups back and kept the even numbers at home till Easter. It's not going to reduce the numbers in a classroom, is it? There will be still be 30 in a class because, if they used the empty rooms to spread them out and made classes of 15 like in the summer, who will teach the year groups at home who need remote learning? It would be the ideal job for the shielding teachers but a) secondary schools have subject specific teaching and b) there would be still be half full classrooms of unsupervised children in school.

I teach Years 3-8. If I am told tomorrow that Years 7 and 8 will stay online while the rest goes back to normal then my timetable will become a hybrid. On a Tuesday for example, I might teach Year 4b physically, Year 6a physically, Year 8a online, Year 5b physically and Year 7b online (not a real timetable or class names). I wouldn't be free in the 3rd and 5th periods to cover half of Year 3b and half of Year 6b who have spread out for infection control.

So it just seems to me that we'll still be back to packed classrooms but that not all children will get the benefit of returning to school.

I can totally see why, with the current trend of falling infections, rising vaccines and promising vaccine data, that the decision is currently that all children should return to school on 8th March. I want that and am not afraid of it but I work in a smallish, safeish school and am healthyish and youngish. I fully appreciate that others are not so fortunate and that something needs to be done. I just don't think a phased return is the answer.

Rotas make much more sense if we need to limit the numbers in a classroom (and I can fully believe that we do, in secondary schools in particular). Would all year groups in 1 week in, 1 week off (or 2 days each with a cleaning day on Wednesday) and static online work on the other days not work better for secondary?
Primary is harder, certainly. I think some could achieve a rota. Those that couldn't are maybe the smaller ones who would manage better being fully back.

My school couldn't do rotas because the parents wouldn't accept non live teaching and wouldn't pay the fees. We could possibly zoom half the class into the classroom. But I think we could easily all go back because our class sizes are smaller. But then there's the inequality issue if some schools do that and others have rotas.

Aargh, no easy answers. Sorry, late night, pointless rambling because I can't sleep with anticipation over 'the announcement' (which will probably be a pre leaked damp squib that will be sat on, retracted and reformed 50 times before the 8th anyway!)

I believe posters have argued for the secondary schools to do a rota like you describe. Year groups with one week in school. One week at home. It definitely seems the only sensible way to work a rota system.

The hardliners want that, masks and better ventilation. It would seem. The first two I get and are easy enough to manage. The last we would have to wait two years whilst major building work takes place. So I am not convinced those that say ventilation ever want the kids back in school.

Schools back now with some extra measures and then a Easter firebreaker is perfect timing really.

How come you teach years 3 to 8? Is it a combined primary and secondary?

I teach in a small private school in the US. I teach about 18 kids in person and 3 or 4 via Zoom at the same time, so I have to plan all of my classes so that in person kids and kids at home can all do the work, and the kids in school are all 6' apart with masks on. The entire school had been re-roomed to make this happen and it's exhausting.

The local state schools have been allowed to make up their own system, district by district. My daughter goes to school 2 days a week and has 2 days when she's in Zoom but the other half of her class are in person. On a Wednesday they have individual sessions if needed. Other areas have all the kids in, others are not in person until September at the earliest.

Whatever the system is, anyone in school has to wear a mask. I don't understand the British schools not being allowed masks when all the scientists say they are so important.

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum , I assumed private school. I've worked in schools where the split is at the end of yr8, rather than at the end of yr6.

Our state secondary in London have worn masks since September. I know others that have too. Not sure why some haven't. Apparently if the government don't demand they should parents and schools haven't done it. I just think some schools have managed the situation better than others. Also mumsnet posters don't necessarily present a good representation of UK schools. Thank goodness

Of course anything where schools are less fun will be better in terms of virus spread.

This is absolutely factual. The more people there are together, the more cases there will be.

A full reopening now is a little bit stupid, but our PM has been a little bit stupid right through this and he isn't going to change now.

Cases will rise rapidly amongst school pupils and their families. Not to mention staff of course.

'fun' should read full!

Rotas are definitely the answer IMO and would also be a good compromise.

I have three teens, one of them struggling significantly with this situation. All of them would benefit a lot from a resumption of some normality, and could therefore cope better with their online from home part of the “rota”.

A full “Big Bang” return doesn’t seem very intelligent - but wouldn’t be surprising considering the government’s track record in dealing with this virus .

trulymadlydeeply it's a prep school. Goes from age 3 -13 (nursery to Year 8) but I don't teach the younger year groups.

We've had optional masks since Sept too. Compulsory in communal areas for staff and Years 7 and 8 since November. I don't know if it makes any difference but I'm happy to do anything to try and get normality back and stay open. We haven't had a single case throughout the whole pandemic but I think that's more about luck and smaller classes than masks. Our Covid measures weren't very good or very well followed last term so I'm thinking definitely mostly luck!

Might depend on how good the school is at keeping the 'bubbles' separate.
At my DDs Primary School, all the classrooms are accessible from the outside. Along with rotas for some facilities, and zones in the playground and lunch hall, this means the classes never mix. The only place you could meet someone from another class is the toilet.

Other schools, die to their building age and geography, don't manage the same separation.

Yes, that's true Aroundtheworld That's the thing my school was worst at. Especially in the dining room (totally not necessary to use it imo and we had 3 year groups - 1.5 bubbles- in there every day).

If the bubbles are secure, I don't think it would be any less safe to have 7 Year groups in than 3. I can see that it would increase the overall numbers more. But that's always been accepted, as long as the hospitals can cope and vaccination is going well. Plus it would be a similar risk if we waited a couple of weeks to have full schools.

The individual risks (and what is making some teachers feel so unsafe) is the crowded classrooms. Leaving some year groups at home won't change that. That's why I could get behind rotas where they're needed but really think all children to have the chance of at least some physical school from 8th.

@PracticingPerson

Of course anything where schools are less fun will be better in terms of virus spread.

This is absolutely factual. The more people there are together, the more cases there will be.

A full reopening now is a little bit stupid, but our PM has been a little bit stupid right through this and he isn't going to change now.

Cases will rise rapidly amongst school pupils and their families. Not to mention staff of course.

little bit?

We are in a fantastic situation with the vaccines and he is dumb enough to ignore scientific advice and gamble it all.

Was trying not to sound hysterical but by 'little bit' I really meant 'totally'

My son was on a rota for most of last term. One week on, one week off. It worked brilliantly. It meant that there was plenty of space for social distancing, all practical subjects could go ahead as normal (he's studying music performance) and he felt very safe. he zoomed in on the weeks he wasn't in.

I really wish my daughter's school (independent) woudl do the same. As it was there ended up being so many cases at her school that at one point there was only one year group in school, so many were isolating.

The rota worked in that his class was split in half A & B groups. So it effectively halved the size of all of his classes as well as giving more room in corridors and social spaces.

That sounds really good Comefromaway

I could see it working really well as a compromise solution for large secondary schools where teachers are cross bubbling all the time and can't keep distance in crowded classrooms. A staggered start wouldn't achieve the same thing at all, I don't think, and it denies some children school altogether while giving some 100%. At this point, I don't think there are priority years, really. They're all in desperate need of going back.

My two eldest are at a specialist performing arts school, one in Y9 and one in Y13. I'd much prefer them both to have a rota as you describe than for the older one to go back fully and the younger not at all. Their classes are quite small though so I think they'll be fine to all go back, assuming that's what the announcement is.

I think it would be fine where I teach too. But I'm not sure the head will agree, I think they might do their own thing, regardless. We shall see!

My eldest is also specialist performing arts. I know that one of the issues with a rota for them is being able to zoom in the accommodation. My daughter is in halls with university students though though younger ones are in boarding houses. She got complaints last term when she had a singing class on zoom whilst isolating and dance is only really possible on the shared kitchen.

Her class sizes are small, there are about 30 in her year group and less per year in Lower School but studios are small and there is still not enough space and bubbles are difficult as some subjects are set by ability, rather than year group.

Obviously a staggered start would be safer no matter how it’s managed, even full year groups. 5 million people mixing freely in large groups wouldn’t be as big an issue for infection rates as 10 million.

I don't get how week on week off would work in reality with parents working etc. My classroom is a double temporary cabin and sept-dec we never saw any one not in our bubble not even the class on the other side of the cabin. Very strange. Felt like the last teacher on earth.

They can't do a rota because some schools have 50% + kids in as keyworker children.

I know the National average is 25% of kids in but round here, it's about 50%. That's according to teacher friends and the rough number of kids in school according to parents dropping off. Our schools, as per government guidance, allowed children with 1 keyworker parent a place even if there was someone working from home.

Surely a rota is better for those keyworker kids than having everyone in and a much higher risk of multiple 2 week isolations with no notice, which is what happened round here before Christmas.

Robert Peston has just tweeted that masks are now going to be compulsory in secondary school classrooms, so yes, OP, clearly a phased return would've been better, because if masks have to be worn inside at all times, then clearly it's not safe for all pupils to return right now.

@RosieLemonade

I don't get how week on week off would work in reality with parents working etc. My classroom is a double temporary cabin and sept-dec we never saw any one not in our bubble not even the class on the other side of the cabin. Very strange. Felt like the last teacher on earth.

Far better for it to be one week in, one week off than kids to be off totally like they have since January and litke what was happening before Christmas with half a school off isolating with no notice.

However my experience is secondary. My kids are secondary age. I concur that I don't know how things would work in primary but for secondary I feel a rota system that creates space to social distance and gives teachers the same kind of mitigatioons as I get in my office (2 metre plus distance from everyone) is the only safe way to go for secondary.

noblegiraffe I'm talking about safety in schools, not safety to the country as a whole. It's accepted that the R rate will rise when we open and the only reason that will lead to another lockdown is if the NHS is overwhelmed again. Which hopefully, with the success of the vaccines, it won't be. My concern is for teachers who do not feel safe. A staggered start is not going to help that as it's not going to allow children to be spread out and broken into smaller groups. Those teachers who have been in small rooms with 30 children and poor ventilation will still be in the same position. If we're going to reduce people's fears, I think rotas would be a better way to do that. It's also fairer to the children. Why should some have everything and others nothing?

Rosie yes, it's not good for working parents, definitely. But for those parents whose children might not to go back at all with a staggered start, it's surely even worse? Another example of a staggered start being great for some and awful for others. Sounds like your school did bubbles exceptionally well. Did the children have their own toilet block too? For schools like yours, I really can't see the difference between allowing some years back and all years. Except, as noble says, to overall transmission. But, the way things have been set out, it seems like that shouldn't matter too much.

Comefromaway - ah yes, that does sound tricky. Mine are day pupils so it's much easier for them.