Keir Starmer backs unions in wanting schools to return safely ⚡⚡⚡

[DumplingsAndStew]

"We'll have to see where the data is, where the science is, but that's what we should be working towards. If that means more testing, if that means Nightingale classrooms, if it means other measures, let's do that because I want to get our kids back into school."

Isn't it great that he agrees with what school staff and unions have been saying for months. That he wants schools to put in place cautious safety measures to enhance safety, so that everyone can return.

news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-labour-calls-for-all-schools-in-england-to-reopen-on-8-march-and-for-a-debt-charter-12224393

Well, we've all been stuck with all sorts of things we haven't liked over the last year, but hey, that's the bugger of a global pandemic really, isn't it?

I'm in early years worked throughout no ppe so it's not like I'm moaning whilst sitting here working from home. But our children need normality back .

I don't know about schools, but I spoke to my SIL today. BIL aged 68 with severe COPD has not yet got a letter/date to be vaccinated.

My friend (48) teacher - severe asthmatic, was in Group 6 - has now been told asthma no longer counts in Group 6, so she'll have to wait before all 9 groups are done. Healthy 51 year olds wfh will be done before her and now she will be expected to go back into a classroom with 150 teenagers a day.

DSis aged 60 and working as a childminder, despite high blood pressure and blood clots in her legs she's being treated for has got no date for a jab.

I suspect they are a very long way off vaccinating everyone who needs it.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

Why is it a silly question? At what point would unions be happy for ALL children to receive some face to face teaching? Zero covid? All adults over 18 vaccinated? Children on a rota basis? The fact is schools may of been open but a lot of children are not able to attend and so are stuck with home learning which is not a substitute for classroom learning.

A teachers union is their to best support the interests of the teachers. So technically they can't ever be happy unless all danger is eradicated

Like the BMJ is there to highlight the needs and opinions of doctors so they won't ever state anything that isn't in the doctors best interest

None of which is a bad thing because people need their rights protected and their voices heard. It does need to be noted that they represent their members and not the general public. I think sometimes these things get a little confused when used in an argument.

Rotas were suggested before but some teachers claimed that would be to hard to maintain as teaching different sets of children at the same time. So not sure teachers would be happy with that anyway?

@CallmeAngelina

Well, we've all been stuck with all sorts of things we haven't liked over the last year, but hey, that's the bugger of a global pandemic really, isn't it?

😂No idea what you opinion is but you made me laugh

@Ilovegreentomatoes

Rotas were suggested before but some teachers claimed that would be to hard to maintain as teaching different sets of children at the same time. So not sure teachers would be happy with that anyway?

Think it depends on whether primary or secondary

In most primary it would be pointless because of keyworker

Secondary it would be a juggle but not impossible

That's terrible November.

Truth is the Government doesn't care and will probably fail to implement safety measures. Makes me sick.

The problem is, no measures will make schools “safe” from covid. Hundreds of kids/school staff in the same building for 7 hours a day = there will always be a risk of covid transmission. The only sensible measure to take at this stage would be to ask those who are at high risk of serious illness to stay away from schools until they have been vaccinated - that includes school staff. I suspect that they won’t take that option though because the same argument could be applied to the hospitality industry etc.

I've said repeatedly that a 50:50 week in: out rota would work for upper secondary at least. Week A group A in school face to face whilst group B is at home consolidating learning doing set tasks. Week B they swap over.
We don't have the facility to live stream from class without it being a diminished offer for both groups. A rota like mine would work. It did when we had year 10 and 12 back in the summer.

Robin - They can't be completely safe but they can definitely do a shit load more than they have bothered to do so far.

Re the unions, it's hard to see how it would be in anyone's interests for schools to have high levels of coronavirus infections or for vulnerable teachers (and vulnerable children) to be ill. There is a high level of common interest there (I certainly don't want the teachers at my children's schools to be ill or vulnerable or unreasonably exposed to risk).

All around- what can they really do, practically, to prevent the transmission of a highly infectious strain of covid in an environment which by necessity involves getting large groups of people together for hours on end? Ordinary “face coverings”
are almost completely ineffective in such circumstances. They are only effective in hospitals because they wear proper ones and change them regularly. Even if you had half the class in you’d still be mixing those households and those in might still leave traces of the virus on desks etc for the next group to catch. There will always be a risk that kids and teachers might catch covid from schools but most people who catch it will only get it mildly. Surely it makes sense then for people who would likely get seriously ill to stay away from schools until they are vaccinated?

I agree herecomesthesun.

I just don't understand parents who don't want safety measures. Their children will be crammed in these small spaces!

@Viciouslybashed

Oh and I know it's not the point of this thread, but why can't mps all go back to parliament if school is expected to just go back. This is especially true of secondary school. Which is essentially 1000+ people mingling. It's all illogical to me.

I think the difference is that pupils theoretically live in the same area / surrounding areas of the school they attend so any outbreak would be fairly localised whereas MPs primarily live in their constituencies so would have to travel the length & breadth of the country. Anyone catching it in parliament could potentially take it back to their constituencies or pass it on at rest stops, service stations etc. It would be especially bad if they’re from an area with low / declining Covid numbers or if they happen to carry back one of the variants. Theoretically they could isolate at their London bases before travelling back but parliament sits around 145 times in an average year so that wouldn’t really work.

[quote thecatfromjapan]@DumplingsAndStew
I should have said this earlier: this thread was a great idea. 💐
[/quote]
Thank you, that's appreciated.

I know some probably see it as goady, but I think it's incredibly important to look at it from another perspective. Due to my aspergers, I often read better into what people have actually said, rather than how it can be interpreted, and he very very clearly said that mitigations are needed, imo.

Just catching up on the thread now

I’m not a parent or teacher so have no skin in the game but I’m just wondering if there is any point to special measures inside schools (particularly secondary) if pupils aren’t distancing outside of school once they leave the gates?

I live in between two secondary schools (one all boys, one all girls) & both schools implemented one way systems, staggered start / finish times & even posted teachers all down the roads to keep pupils moving / distancing but despite this pupils still congregated at meeting points; albeit further away & out of the sight of the teachers.

While various groups waited for their friends (both schools were meeting up with each other as well); they were hugging, kissing, play fighting, holding hands, draped over each other etc. Obviously they’re just teens being teens but wouldn’t this cause Covid numbers to rise regardless of what the schools actually did in their buildings? I’m just thinking any “gains” from distancing in school would be negated by the mixing of pupils outside of school or am I completely missing the point? Also, is this sort of thing typical in anyone else’s area or is it just mine? If it’s just mine, disregard what I’ve just said!

(Assuming not an issue for primary schools though as the kids are small enough to get dropped off / picked up).

I work in a school.

@Tinkity it will have some effect yes, however it is in the open air, it won't be every single one of them, and the jumping on/ hugging etc may subside in most cases after the initial few minutes.

So still less transmission risk than being in school.

(both schools were meeting up with each other as well); they were hugging, kissing, play fighting, holding hands, draped over each other etc.

The do this inside schools as well tinkity !

@tinkity I see what you are saying re mps. But do they all commute in then every day? I'm assuming not. I've not been able to listen to the speech tonight but just wondered if it was mentioned.