For those who were/are against lockdown

[CarlaH]

I have just sounded off a bit in another thread when I should have started one of my own really.

I would like to ask the vocal critics of lockdown, the ones that state that vulnerable people should just stay at home how they would have handled the complete overload of the NHS.

Even with the lockdowns and restrictions we have had the hospitals have been overwhelmed. The staff must be on their knees with it all.

With no lockdown at all I have to assume that there would have been even greater numbers of very sick people needing hospitalisation.

Would any of the people who are so opposed to the lockdowns been prepared to personally stand at the hospital doors and turn the sick away to possibly/probably die at home?

@loopyapp

We sgould have acted like new Zealand and closed all boarders. We a small island and self containment was always the better option.

Add to which, all the money spent on furlough and school catch up programmes could have been thrown at supporting the NHS our economy wouldn't have shrunk by the largest amount in recorded history and the mental health crisis waiting in the wings would have been half the size.

No one was needed to stand at hospital doors turning sick people away. Money just needed to be allocated better.

We're nothing like NZ.

NZ isn't a global travel hub. NZ doesn't have a tunnel and ferries crossing to the mainland (Europe) in just a couple of hours. NZ doesn't have huge numbers of people entering/leaving every day for work to/from mainland Europe.

I agree that we should have closed borders, but it's nowhere near as quick and easy as it was for the likes of NZ. The logistics are completely different. Closed borders would cause untold harm to people and businesses - if we want to go down that route, we need to understand the consequences.

@ILookAtTheFloor - people spilling into corridors certainly did happen in some hospitals in this country

people spilling into corridors certainly did happen in some hospitals in this country

and that happens every year in winter. It was December 2019, before covid, that a 4 year old boy had to sleep on the floor of a crowded A&E. Boris refused to look at the photo.

@LucilleTheVampireBat - true.

and that happens every year in winter. It was December 2019, before covid, that a 4 year old boy had to sleep on the floor of a crowded A&E. Boris refused to look at the photo.

It was awful but fgs that was one child once

@ILookAtTheFloor

The hospitals were never overwhelmed as such. Very, very busy - definitely.

Spilling out into corridors like we saw in Italy at the start- no, that didn't happen here.

They didn't even make it to the corridors - they were stuck outside in ambulances.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/governments-review-emergency-powers-parliament-citizens-liberties-880465?ito=social_ifb_theipaper&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3_2SHN7uag69zabuIfRbwVCnPDCaK9JknmU_SMOMqdhbQHblCgDwpp1KE#Echobox=1613820001
Government’s review of emergency powers may lead to MPs losing say over restrictions on citizen’s liberty
EXCLUSIVECritics fear the review of the Civil Contingencies Act may lead to ministers seeking to bypass Parliamentary scrutiny of emergency laws

Here is the MN thread from the time.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3764459-Boris-Johnson-refuses-to-look-at-photo-of-child-on-hospital-floor

@RJnomore1

I’d have taken the billions we have pissed down the drain with very little effect and thrown it entirely at health and social care.

We shouldn’t be held hostage in our homes to protect an institution. It’s bat shit crazy.

And yes I know training takes years but not every job that needs doing is highly specialised. The money could have expanded building and manufacturing items too and created lots of employment.

"We shouldn’t be held hostage in our homes to protect an institution. It’s bat shit crazy."

Only the bat shit crazy would think that was the point of it. We were not doing this FOR the NHS. We were keeping them from being overwhelmed so that WE could get treatment when needed.

From day one we've had people who came on here bewildered "but why do we owe the NHS anything" etc. They must have all had it explained to them dozens of times. How is it possible to live in this country or on this planet and still get it wrong?

@LastTrainEast you seem to be missing the part where massive numbers of people CANT get treatment because they are the wrong sort of ill 🤔

I’ve said this before but back after lockdown 1 the NHS board where I work we’re presenting stats showing the impact of lockdown would have the same impact on life expectancy as 6 unmitigated pandemics. God knows what it’s at now, I’m scared to ask and too busy to attend many of the endless and pointless nhs meetings.

"I am firmly of the belief that the NHS is not my responsibility,"

And there's another one of them.

@Katie517 thank you for articulating what is in my head so well! Had the same with maternity care too.

btw that thread about Boris and the kid on the hospital floor is well worth a reread particularly for the stuff about Hancock towards the end especially in the light of very recent revelations.

So what part of "stay home, protect the NHS , save lives" wasnt about protecting the NHS?

I was for lockdown until I seen Kanye west had come on holiday to London. Then I see all these so called social media people flying off to Dubai.

The whole thing has been a farce. The border shit have been shut down.

@2020canfuckitself Tbf, What is he even doing on holiday in London? The entire place is shut. Unless he fancies a stroll round my local park i can’t see it would be worth a holiday here at the moment.

I am still waiting to be told a credible alternative to lock down. In a country similar to ours where infections have got as high as ours. Not seen protect the vulnerable work, anywhere

Those who didn’t believe the NHS wasn’t overwhelmed in the spring. Patients were discharged to care homes (we know what happened next), ambulances in London were not going out to those over 70, non Covid treatment was cancelled was cancelled. What more did you want? Did we need to get to levels in Italy for you to register?

Yes the NHS has been underfunded. Yes they have bad winters. If you really can’t see or hear that this has been so much worse than that ( and this is with restrictions) then you need a sharp reality check.

My chance of getting seriously ill from Covid is absolutely minute - but I still would have died without lockdown. I live near a major hospital that was very close to being overloaded - but not quite. I hear sirens a lot. Well, last summer I was in an accident that involved positional asphyxia caused by a fall, a staircase and a narrow space. Because the hospital had space, I got rapid treatment from paramedics and an ICU bed - I remember none of this but I was in a coma for a couple of days. Being relatively young, fit and well, I woke up absolutely fine, nothing but a sprained wrist and bruises. But without the rapid deployment of oxygen and breathing support I wouldn't be writing this post.

@Quit4me

No. What I would have liked though, is borders tightly monitored from last Feb half term when it was all being brought here via Italy, track and trace to have been working well early on and after the first lockdown, all our efforts not pissed away.

Agreed. I'm not anti lockdown NOW, it is our only option. What I am against is that we ever needed lockdowns in the first place, where decent border controls and track and trace systems could have prevented it.

I agree. Forcing small shops to close is stupid - if they enforce restricted numbers in the shop, have screens, etc., they are very low risk. Same with hairdressers, etc. All the lockdowns are doing is damaging the smallest of businesses, many of whom will never re-open.
Yes I don't think there have been many cases, if any, linked to small shops.

@LastTrainEast

"I am firmly of the belief that the NHS is not my responsibility,"

And there's another one of them.

It’s amazing that after all this time some people still just don’t get it, isn’t it

Lockdown only punishes the poor.

The first lockdown made sense whilst we found out more about the virus. But we should have fully opened up earlier to take advantage of the warmer months.

It should not be illegal to have friends and family into my house! The government dont pay my bills, they shouldn't get a say in who I have in here.

I think hospitals should have stopped trying to save everyone. We have become so immune to death we now think the death of an 85 year old is a tragedy, it isnt. And the government should have spent the summer getting better prepared for the respiratory illnesses that overflow the NHS every year.

Those who are saying we should have just thrown money at the NHS and social care instead of lockdown - how would that have worked exactly? NHS and social care capacity can't be hugely expanded overnight. It takes years to recruit and train staff and to improve and develop infrastructure, IT systems, buildings etc.

@LucilleTheVampireBat

people spilling into corridors certainly did happen in some hospitals in this country

and that happens every year in winter. It was December 2019, before covid, that a 4 year old boy had to sleep on the floor of a crowded A&E. Boris refused to look at the photo.

But this Winter it happened despite the NHS cancelling everything else, i.e. non urgent treatments (and some urgent treatments too). In a normal Winter, the NHS doesn't just give up on everything else and concentrate on Flu!

@ChocOrange1

I agree. Forcing small shops to close is stupid - if they enforce restricted numbers in the shop, have screens, etc., they are very low risk. Same with hairdressers, etc. All the lockdowns are doing is damaging the smallest of businesses, many of whom will never re-open. Yes I don't think there have been many cases, if any, linked to small shops.

I think there's definitely an "anti" small business/self employed agenda at the moment - just look at the 3 million self employed excluded from the covid support schemes. No surprise really given Rishi is married to a billionaire and his "job" before becoming an MP was in City finance.