Schools in England should go back at Easter

[GinAndTonicOnIt]

I'm terrified that full return will result in increased transmissions. This will increase the chance of more mutations. Which increases the chance of a mutant that is resistant to the current vaccines.

Or just back with full wards, and yet another lockdown.

I loathe lockdown. I would give anything to wake up tomorrow and life be back to normal. But it's for this reason I think we should wait that extra bit longer. Get those rates right down and vaccines out, then have a return to school that won't result in another lockdown.....!

AIBU for thinking this? Am I wrong?

Really interesting piece on this just now on Radio 5 analysing various university reports about transmission rate in children at school and whether reopening straight away will cause negative effects or not.

The scientist interviewed concluded that due to asymptomatic cases in children, reopening immediately would cause R to go above 1 again and lead to a further lock down.

She said there is a middle ground of learning from other countries by phasing children back in, recognising that virus is airborne so introducing masks for children over 6 and improving ventilation / filtration / social distancing in classrooms.

@AllAroundTheWrekin

Really interesting piece on this just now on Radio 5 analysing various university reports about transmission rate in children at school and whether reopening straight away will cause negative effects or not.

The scientist interviewed concluded that due to asymptomatic cases in children, reopening immediately would cause R to go above 1 again and lead to a further lock down.

She said there is a middle ground of learning from other countries by phasing children back in, recognising that virus is airborne so introducing masks for children over 6 and improving ventilation / filtration / social distancing in classrooms.

Well it looks like the government is going to pay zero attention to her.

I just have a horrid feeling cases are going to rise again. It just puts a decent summer at risk, for the sake of 3 weeks. So short sighted.

I don’t understand the resistance to vaccinating teachers? Is there a reason not to??? Is just feels stubborn.
Police and teachers just should have been included right after nhs staff.

@Marypoppins19 don't forget prison staff, they can't escape their positive cases.

I think it would be madness to open all schools fully on one day . Yes I really want the kids to go back but whilst the “Big Bang approach “ might be ok , it could be carnage . Those parts of the country like ours where the Kent variant ripped through before Christmas will tell you that many school children brought it home to their families and quite a few young/ younger people were badly affected . So aside from a lot of teachers unvaccinated there are still a lot of vulnerable people ( eg parents and siblings) out there who have yet to be vaccinated. Also most people aren’t fully vaccinated and there are plenty of vulnerable kids out there who don’t form part of this vaccine programme because they are under 16 . It is so annoying to have people say “all vulnerable people “ have been protected . When they haven’t . Happy to get the kids back but let’s do it in a measured way . And then hopefully it will be for the last time. I appreciate it’s really bad what the kids are missing out on but it’s pretty shit too if you have a vulnerable child in your household or vulnerable members of your family who are teachers who have yet to be vaccinated . It’s a few more weeks that’s all.

@Marypoppins19

I don’t understand the resistance to vaccinating teachers? Is there a reason not to??? Is just feels stubborn. Police and teachers just should have been included right after nhs staff.

Because it goes against the government’s rhetoric. Schools are safe. The police are safe. Also, If they vaccinated teachers and the police as a priority they would need to vaccinate other groups such as bus drivers, supermarket workers, nursery staff as a priority too. Basically pretty much every person working outside of the home becomes a priority.

I don’t understand the resistance to vaccinating teachers? Is there a reason not to??? Is just feels stubborn

Then you would need to (quite rightly) vaccinate shop workers and factory workers too. It could actually be a pretty big list of people.
Not saying it shouldn’t happen but I’ll bet the government didn’t do it because it would be very tricky logistically.

@Marypoppins19 I think the resistance is simply that most Tory MPs don’t know many frontline workers or care about our health. They certainly haven’t been great over the past few years with supporting pay or conditions for the frontline - whether that’s shop staff, teachers, police officers, prison workers etc. To most of us it seems obvious that people who deal with the public at close range on a daily basis should be prioritised after the elderly and clinically vulnerable but it’s not going to happen. I always found it strange that we’re not entitled to a flu jab either. They know who the critical workers in this country are - they need us alive and well to keep things ticking over if we’re going to get out of this as smoothly as possible.

Haven’t read the full thread but I agree with you OP.

I think it would be madness to open all schools fully on one day . Yes I really want the kids to go back but whilst the “Big Bang approach “ might be ok , it could be carnage. Those parts of the country like ours where the Kent variant ripped through before Christmas will tell you that many school children brought it home to their families and quite a few young/ younger people were badly affected .

I agree completely. The Kent variant is still circulating, so what will be different this time? Case numbers are still above 10,000 daily. Before Christmas, the most infected people were children in secondary and then primary schools - what will be so different this time to prevent another surge? It is still likely unvaccinated parents and young people can be badly affected by this virus 😞

Micro personal here but I was booked for my vaccine due to an underlying health condition last week which would have been great and given me nearly 3 weeks before school goes back.
Unfortunately... due to that condition they won't give me the Pfizer vaccine which the stock that was delivered. I can't book through the national system and the GP says fingers crossed next bunch will be Astra Zeneca.
I'm sure I'll get my first shot in time for after Easter but not in time for March 8th. I'm not sure how many people with chronic conditions are in the same boat.

The maths of this equation are quite simple. Schools are unsafe because in opening up further they will increase transmission of the virus. That is why, in terms of the overall relaxation of lockdown measures, restrictions would have to be lifted more slowly in other sectors, if schools are reopened to all pupils. As a working environment, if it is deemed to be adequately safe for teachers to have no meaningful mitigation measures in place, then there is no argument for continuing with social distancing or masks in any other area of society. I think teachers get particularly upset by the disingenuous messaging that attempts to create the impression that schools are safe - whilst absolutely all of the evidence suggests otherwise. So, I do not think that schools should be reopening to all until case levels are low enough for effective 'track & trace' to be implemented and until all teachers who wish to be vaccinated have been. In the meantime (and beyond) massive resources should be put into making schools better working environments for both teachers and pupils - more classroom space, higher ratio of teaching staff to pupils and more outside learning/exercise - that way, they would be more adequate both now, in 'normal times' and when the next pandemic inevitably hits our shores!

Can anyone tell me what the situation is with shielding? With more people added to the list and asked to shield until 31st March? What happens if school staff are shielding until then? How could schools open?

In my school, shielding staff will be asked to set work for their classes which will be supervised by cover supervisors.

We’ll be expected to use TAs to teach I think @FrankieTross

Differences this time - the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.

Secondary schools will be doing weekly tests of students, so asymptomatic cases will be caught, not continuing to spread. In primary schools they are weekly testing staff.

The weather is improving, covid drops in good weather.

Last year I listened to people say if we held off until May half term, schools would be safe, then as that got closer, we just needed to get to September, when everything would be better again. Then obviously we needed to lockdown again, and if we just keep schools closed an extra couple of weeks after Christmas /until the feb half term /to March / to Easter....

What happens if children lose yet more of their education and covid is here still at Easter? Say its only one more term to the summer? And September- well we've nearly jabbed everyone, shame to waste all the good work, couple of weeks home learning just until its done.

Its been a year. Enough.

@FrankieTross

Can anyone tell me what the situation is with shielding? With more people added to the list and asked to shield until 31st March? What happens if school staff are shielding until then? How could schools open?

I would assume they can’t work in schools until after Easter at least.

Not sure how many teachers it will affect or if schools will be given supply budget to cover them. I think even if you get the vaccine you are still meant to shield if you are part of this group.

I’m just hoping I get to come back in May and admit I was totally wrong about all this.

@WhenSheWasBad
Bus drivers were the most at risk! They should be.
The slight differences with teachers and police verses shop staff is the level of intimate care. It’s great that Sen staff in some schools have been vaccinated

Secondary schools will be doing weekly tests of students, so asymptomatic cases will be caught, not continuing to spread

Using completely unreliable tests. Those tests are probably worse than nothing - they will give some teenagers the entirely false sense they they don’t have Covid. Meaning they social distance even less than normal (they are already very poor at social distancing).

Its been a year. Enough

Covid doesn’t disappear just because you’ve had enough of it. It’s shit. I’d never argue it isn’t shit. Like you I’m trying to do my job at home whilst helping two primary aged kids with home learning. It’s shit and exhausting.

I’m very worried that if we open up too soon the numbers will rocket again and fuck up summer and spring. I’d rather have an extra shit 3 weeks now than months and months of Covid restrictions over summer.

Not sure how many teachers it will affect or if schools will be given supply budget to cover them.
We've been given diddly squat so far so it's unlikely.

Vulnerable have not all rendered vaccinated. I don't know why people keep saying this .

Secondary schools will be doing weekly tests of students...

No they won’t. It’s suggested parents may be asked to test their children at home.

...so asymptomatic cases will be caught

No they won’t. The tests aren’t sufficiently sensitive.

We've been given diddly squat so far so it's unlikely

We did a survey in school (of teachers) over 50% had a chronic condition. I was really shocked by the high number.

To be fair the ongoing condition could be anything from tennis elbow to being immunosuppressed after a heart transplant. But it was a surprisingly high number of staff.

@FrankieTross

Many vulnerables haven’t been vaccinated . They are only getting started on group 6 here.
Also many asthmatic teachers won’t be vaccinated by then, all under 16s vulnerables haven’t been vaccinated and many 16/17 asthmatics haven’t been vaccinated . Having got close family members in all of these groups and, as I said above , the Kent variant caused havoc when the schools were last open please don’t make statements that are patently untrue . Sure granny might no longer be killed ( though to point out many haven't had their full course yet so there is still some scope for that too) but some really quite young people could become very sick indeed. All we suggest is that a slower reopening might just stem possible carnage . We all want our kids to go back . But I would like this to be done safely. We need to get this right once and for all . So this is the last time.

@MargosKaftan

Differences this time - the most vulnerable have been vaccinated.

Secondary schools will be doing weekly tests of students, so asymptomatic cases will be caught, not continuing to spread. In primary schools they are weekly testing staff.

The weather is improving, covid drops in good weather.

Last year I listened to people say if we held off until May half term, schools would be safe, then as that got closer, we just needed to get to September, when everything would be better again. Then obviously we needed to lockdown again, and if we just keep schools closed an extra couple of weeks after Christmas /until the feb half term /to March / to Easter....

What happens if children lose yet more of their education and covid is here still at Easter? Say its only one more term to the summer? And September- well we've nearly jabbed everyone, shame to waste all the good work, couple of weeks home learning just until its done.

Its been a year. Enough.

Exactly this. Covid isn't going anywhere, there has to come a point where we recognise that it won't be going anywhere and start to get back on with things. If we apply the "but let's just wait til Easter" it could easily be another year of "its not yet safe" "we must wait for numbers to come down". Meanwhile, children have had ONE term of education in an entire year. ONE.