Schools in England should go back at Easter

[GinAndTonicOnIt]

I'm terrified that full return will result in increased transmissions. This will increase the chance of more mutations. Which increases the chance of a mutant that is resistant to the current vaccines.

Or just back with full wards, and yet another lockdown.

I loathe lockdown. I would give anything to wake up tomorrow and life be back to normal. But it's for this reason I think we should wait that extra bit longer. Get those rates right down and vaccines out, then have a return to school that won't result in another lockdown.....!

AIBU for thinking this? Am I wrong?

@Newtonn and you'd say the same for hospitals? If you think offices and factories are safer than schools I really disagree - but regardless schools are more important than most.

@MrsHerculePoirot id be more than happy for school to stay shut if other socialising was allowed for the children. And I am not a lover of homeschooling whatsoever I find it incredibly stressful, but I think it would be more manageable if dc had other things to look forward to like seeing friends and extended family. The main reason I want my dc back in school is so they can have some normality and maintain relationships with their peers.

[quote Gerberageri]@Newtonn and you'd say the same for hospitals? If you think offices and factories are safer than schools I really disagree - but regardless schools are more important than most.[/quote]
I agree they're important and that's why they'll be first. They're not as important as hospitals though are they, otherwise they couldn't have closed at all.

They're also not safer than offices. No office I've ever been in has 30 people sitting shoulder to shoulder all day long, but it's not about comparison of different risk, but the combination.

My comment was actually in relation to the point made about adults being 'the ones' currently spreading it. The only reason it's not as huge in schools as before is because most of the children aren't in them.

When they go back, the increase in mixing will cause an increase in transmission. Lots of posts say things like well if we can do this, why can't we do that - it's the same sort of risk. But if you do both, it's not the same average risk, it adds up to double.

Lots of posts say things like well if we can do this, why can't we do that - it's the same sort of risk. But if you do both, it's not the same average risk, it adds up to double.

Fully understand this...but when you don’t care, the movement schools opening creates, gives people opportunity to start mixing again. You can go unnoticed; you can have a parent pick up a child from school so now you have a reason to see family. You’re up and dressed anyway as you had to take kids to school, so more inclined to pop to M&S, Costa, etc
And those who don’t have kids, well, they are going to use the same movement opportunities created, because people don’t care about the R rate...and not everyone is a parent and invested in schools...if they close again, so what?...at least I got out and enjoyed for a few weeks. If the police stop me, I’ll pretend I just took someone to school.

MN users seem to think that everyone will want schools open, so will be willing to sacrifice everything else for that. The truth is that only parents and teachers actually give a shit about that.

Agree with op. Stupid to open schools too soon.

No I think children have been punished enough. They can’t have their education and chance to grow denied any longer. They have had their lives put on hold for an old Ed’s that barely affects them. Maybe if they had all been able to go back for the summer term last year you could justify it. But now they have missed too much.

Think you're right, totally. Think most people without kids or who are past that stage would rather have retail and their social lives back. Although people round here seem to think that schools back will cure anti social behaviour. They seem unaware that kids are not in school from 3pm.

Just give teachers the vaccine and let their concerns get taken out of the equation. I'm done with all the ifs and buts.

I think the best thing would be to bring all the years back on a blended basis. So no children completely miss out.

I can see the logic of starting with ages 4-7 - really hope year 2 don’t miss out like they did in the summer as that seemed unfair (different cohort now obviously)

But year 7 and the exam years really need to be back too.

Allegedly mass vaccination centres are no where near as busy as they could be so just get the teachers vaccinated and let them return to school.

MN users seem to think that everyone will want schools open, so will be willing to sacrifice everything else for that

The government is rather banking on that too.

I’d like to see teachers (and all school staff) vaccinated too, although I realise that won’t take us the whole way.

MN users seem to think that everyone will want schools open, so will be willing to sacrifice everything else for that

^^
I don’t think everyone will want it. But I think I is very selfish of adults not to put children’s needs first now. They’ve sacrificed far too much.

@SilverGlitterBaubles

Just give teachers the vaccine and let their concerns get taken out of the equation. I'm done with all the ifs and buts.

That’s like arguing that it is safe to open pubs if we vaccinate the bar staff.

I’m worried about the spread. I remember calling an ambulance for my 7 year old back in November. They immediately said they would send an ambulance. 10 seconds later the operative asked if I could get him there myself (no spare ambulances).

I’m really not keen on overwhelming the NHS (ds is fine now thankfully).

@HipTightOnions

MN users seem to think that everyone will want schools open, so will be willing to sacrifice everything else for that

The government is rather banking on that too.

They won't have a choice.

No thanks. They’re already vaccinating over 65s and those who are vulnerable and once they’re done surely it’s time to start focussing on mental health.

I heard this (schools going back as normal) being discussed on the radio this evening as though it were a done deal. There was no discussion of any extra measures to make schools more Covid safe. If this happens:

-The R rate will be well over 1 by Easter
-Rates of infections among school age children and their unvaccinated parents will rise across the country
-Many children will be sent home to isolate, further disrupting their education
-Hospitalisations of working age people will increase
-More circuit breakers and lockdowns will ensue

This could be mitigated by a more careful return to school with staggered starts, blended learning and some form of rota arrangement as well as properly implemented testing regimes, and of course mandatory mask wearing indoors. But I won’t hold my breath.

I heard this (schools going back as normal) being discussed on the radio this evening as though it were a done deal. There was no discussion of any extra measures to make schools more Covid safe.

That is really horrifying.
If that is the case, how have they learnt so little over all this time?
What different outcome are they expecting if they repeat the same mistakes as before?

@Carycy: yep — that's the truth of it.

It's quite surprising to see so many posts wishing to deny children their education.

For all that I understand why (transmissions, etc.), the way to mitigating that would be to open schools, and close down other areas.

Who can really say that in person supermarket shopping, B&Q, etc. are truly essential? To say nothing of all the homes getting made over by carpet fitting contractors.

But that's not what people are arguing for. And on this site of all places, I find that quite uncomfortable.

@Newtonn "They're also not safer than offices. No office I've ever been in has 30 people sitting shoulder to shoulder all day long, but it's not about comparison of different risk, but the combination."

Really? You've never been in a call centre or production line then. Let alone an open plan office. 30? Hundreds of people.

At the moment they have measures in place but not very good ones. Our school hasn't had one covid case, I can't think of an office that's been open that hasn't has a full on outbreak, but it's not newsworthy and they just carry on. The HSE don't do anything, no-one asks for them to be vaccinated. My uncle works in a call centre and has poor health, it doesn't really matter, he has to go in every day and hope for the best. It's not just teachers. He can't ask his colleagues to wash their hands, check with their parents that they're fit and well before entering the office, take their temperature and send them home, can't open a window. All the measures schools have available.

It shouldn't be an either or but we have to see all of this in context, the kids deserve it.

Not a truer word has been said op. If only the government thought the same.
Obviously I want my son to go back to school ASAP, not because I can't be bothered or don't want to homeschool anymore, but because going to school is best for him in every way possible, not just the learning part but the socialising with other children. He misses school so much. He started Reception in September and was settling in really well, then this happened.
I want my husband to be able to go back to work (I appreciate he will be able to one day and acknowledge we are luckier than others). Selfishly I want to go back to being able to get my nails and eyebrows done once a fortnight. I miss that.
But when it's safe to do so. I don't believe it will be safe enough to reopen anywhere before Easter. And I don't think schools should go back until after the Easter holidays at all.

Absolutely agree, OP. 100%. I'm literally just spending the weekend anxiously waiting and hoping that they don't send all the kids back at once.

I also don't really agree that children have 'sacrificed' or 'suffered enough' or any of these other melodramatic things. It's heartbreaking that some have suffered. (It's also heartbreaking that some suffer in school due to bullying, learning difficulties etc.) It's been a massively unusual time that they'll remember and the education they've gained this year is different from the usual books and numbers education they'd have got. I don't feel worried about the vast majority of them, and think that they will be fine to wait out another few weeks to ensure that it really is a 'time in their lives' and not an ongoing multi-year saga, which really would be damaging.

@BettyBoomerang

How about the children who missed out on the end of secondary or primary school last year? Pretty significant events, I'd say, and current GCSE/A Level students are already losing experiences that I had always viewed as rites of passage.

Or opportunities to forge friendships if new to a school which other children in school are doing (my Yr R child won't do Zoom calls anymore, seeing his friends in is upsetting him too much).

I don't think sacrifice is too strong a word at all (although I'm not one of the previous posters to use it).

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Unless you have kids, you don’t care less about them. When you were young and childless, would you have prioritised other people’s kids above yourself? Truthfully, I wouldn’t have.

@HauntedPencil
Actually that’s what I’m saying. We all have a choice to comply or not.
Schools opening = movement. It’s easier to travel out of area; easier to get out and about, when you can hide amongst everyone else moving about. Opening schools is a good thing, if you don’t want to comply anymore.

People aren’t going to say, ‘look, I don’t want to risk schools closing again, so I’ll say home and be good’. Well, some people will.
Others will say ‘ooh an opportunity to get out and do more’. And they’ll justify it to themselves by saying ‘schools are open, if Covid spreads anywhere, it’ll be there anyway.’

I know this because that’s exactly what I intend to do. My mum will pick up my son as she’s looking forward to me being able to pick him up from her house. I’ll be able to see my family again.
My sister works with me! We’ll no doubt have lunch together. I can’t wait.

Right now, I can hardly muster the effort to get dressed. Once schools are open, I’ll be up and out. I will be able to go for coffee (takeaway), go into M&S on the way home etc. Life will resume.

I won’t be going on my holiday in the summer anyway by the looks of it, so what have I got to lose? I’m sick of lockdown. I agree it’s selfish and I don’t fucking care.

Everybody I know in RL wants their children back on the 8th. Literally everybody, and I know a lot of people. Why is Mumsnet so strange.