What? No discussion about G7 calls to give vaccinations away

[CuriousaboutSamphire]

I thought I'd come here and find a discussion underway already. Apologies if I have missed it.

G7 - Boris Johnson pledges to give vaccines to poorer countries. We have already paid for far more doses than we need. Australia, Canada, Japan, the UK, and US and the EU have already secured more than 3bn doses, that's 1.2bn doses of covid vaccine paid for by countries who won't need them.

Macron has suggest countries give away 5% of vaccines, Boris has already pledged far higher through covax! There is ongoing discussion about the timing of the vaccine giveaway!

Johnson wants a 100-day target for developing vaccines when new diseases strike. Given how this one was made, from new and old technology alike, that shouldn't be too hard, should it?

Sounds like we are moving on... global vaccination will be the new topic of outraged discussion.

I am a bit confused by your post. Are you saying you are annoyed Boris said he would give away vaccines without discussion? Whether they are vaccines we don’t need to just vaccines I would be happy for our tax payers money to go to other people who need them. It’s been an awful year but at least we have had hope in the U.K. Other families in other countries have not had that.

My mind boggles at the fact that virtually all western countries bought FAR more vaccines than their own population. Not just slightly more to theoretically offer a choice of brands, but 4-7x more than all the people in the country (and vaccine rates will never be 100% anyway). What the fuck...giving them away seems the only reasonable option.

@User594022452

My mind boggles at the fact that virtually all western countries bought FAR more vaccines than their own population. Not just slightly more to theoretically offer a choice of brands, but 4-7x more than all the people in the country (and vaccine rates will never be 100% anyway). What the fuck...giving them away seems the only reasonable option.

It's because no-one knew which, if any, of the different types of vaccine would be effective. There have been some that were trialed but turned out to be unusable. We bought lots of different types so that were were covered if many didn't work.

However, of course we should now donate what we don't need.

I'm not annoyed. This isn't AIBU is it (checks quickly) I was just interested by it. Wondered if it was already under discussion here.

The countries that paid upfront for the research and development and then for huge numbers of doses across many manufacturers before any were known to be viable were always going to have to either:

Write off the investment if it didn't work

Have a plan for the excess doses purchased.

The UK, via Covax, has always planned to make those doses available to poorer countries.

Today Johnson has called for more, for all countries who have front purchased doses they won't need to give some of them away for free to the poorest countries.

And for a commitment to a concerted effort for future diseases, a 100 day response for future novel diseases.

Sorry am still unclear what you want to discuss sorry if am being thick.

I think we should give away the ones we don't need, in rare agreement with the PM on this one.

Oh! Sorry. I don't have a specific question. Just wanted to discuss the G7 and vaccine next steps.

I seem to be crap at being an OP!

@User594022452

My mind boggles at the fact that virtually all western countries bought FAR more vaccines than their own population. Not just slightly more to theoretically offer a choice of brands, but 4-7x more than all the people in the country (and vaccine rates will never be 100% anyway). What the fuck...giving them away seems the only reasonable option.

The reason for this is they didn’t know which ones would work!

It’s like backing all 3 runners in a 3 man race.

@User594022452

My mind boggles at the fact that virtually all western countries bought FAR more vaccines than their own population. Not just slightly more to theoretically offer a choice of brands, but 4-7x more than all the people in the country (and vaccine rates will never be 100% anyway). What the fuck...giving them away seems the only reasonable option.

Do you recall the talk about how there was a lot of investment in vaccines? That’s because globally governments were placing orders on the understanding their investments might not result in a working vaccine. The expectation was that we might end of with one or two globally if we were lucky and expectations have been massively exceeded.

The UK has enough vaccine through good luck and good advice. We potentially have enough to vaccinate the entire population twice over... yes it’s right that we should pledge our spare vaccines to countries that need it.

Quite agree. Have all the vaccines the UK (and other countries) have pre-ordered been approved though?

Having a spare 3bn doses sounds a lot - but if 2.5bn are for vaccines which subsequently turn out not to work then the debate is pretty moot.

Ooh! News has been updated.

Apparently poverty campaigners want Boris to say exactly how many doses he is committing to.

Not sure how he can do that at this point. He can say how many of the current vaccines. Maybe how many of those about to come on line. But he couldn't include those further down the line, because they may never be useful.

I would guess that the lack of specificity will become another of the 'facts' that get used as a stick to beat.

I'd be more interested in what % each country can commit to. The IPSOS poll seemed to suggest that the UK population was more generous, c.70% agreeing to give away additional doses against 45% globally!

I'm.guessing this g7 will be the most watched ever!

I think it's entirely reasonable that we should complete our vaccination programme and keep whatever vaccines or purchase options we need in reserve for variants, especially since we gave so much support for the R&D and took a big gamble with that.

I completely support being generous with spare capacity but not at the expense of speed of vaccination of our own population, as Macron seems to be suggesting.

I hope the majority of sensible thinking people will agree this is absolutely the right approach.

Firstly from a moral point of view - a civilised country should help other countries particular where lives are at stake - excess vaccines have no value to a country who has vaccinated their population. There will obviously be questions and differences of opinion about which countries should get them, and whether any payments should be expected.

Secondly it is in every countries interest in getting the levels of infection down worldwide, it will improve the global economy as well as reducing the chances of dangerous vaccine-immune mutations.

Please don’t call him Boris though, he is not a jovial boy!

Matt Hancock mentioned at 5pm briefing a couple of weeks ago that the UK would give excess vaccines to other countries, so it's no surprised. I think he said something at the time about recognising covid was a global problem, and we need to help others.

I'm sure the government will ensure there's enough for everyone here, and also if a future vaccine which we've ordered proves better for the new variants, then we'll keep those if tweaked vaccines aren't out yet.

It's shorter than Johnson. I vacillate between the two depending on whether I am in my phone or not. Easy option on phone is Boris.

Meh!

You’re forgiven!

He did starfish. It's good to see it followed through at the summit.

Covax will supply 20% of need to the mist vulnerable in the poorest countries. This additional free amount should make a big difference.

It seems that 'nothing left on the table' wasn't just a soundbite!

Hopefully all other richer countries will get properly on board.

I'd like to see something more immediate on the give away though. Maybe the next vaccine that comes on line could go straight off.

I am not sure I could find the balance between vaccinating the home population and looking out to engage with the need elsewhere. And whatever you might ascribe to Johnson as a motivation for this, he does seem to be determined to push through a more open handed agreement.

@SilverBirchWithout

You’re forgiven!

Smile I even took time to type Johnson (3 times now) whilst on my phone, just for you!

I strongly suspect Johnson will be looking towards how public opinion reacts. In recent weeks there appears to be a more ‘statesman-like’ image of handling Covid at home.
He desperately needs to improve his image on the world stage, after Biden’s election his behaviour has certainly changed. I suspect the communications team changes at No.10 are also having an impact. Such a shame it’s so late - many more lives could have been saved if different decisions had been made last Autumn.

I don't know about that. They made the decision to place a huge amount of money for vaccine development. That was their focus, it seems.

Swings and roundabouts perhaps. We won't know the truth of that for a few years yet!

For once I am in agreement with the PM - never thought that would happen!

I really don’t understand why other countries wouldn’t do the same? Once everyone who wants one has had both doses, what other use is there for them? Other than to wield power of struggling nations that can’t afford enough to vaccinate their populace.

I think it may be the thought of giving them away for free, perhaps.

Johnson and Hancock have been saying that for a while. We have already spent the money, that's what our Pandemic Plan was. They have no apparent interest in scraping that back from countries that can't afford it.

It will be interesting to see what else is reported on this and to see how it is reported across the globe.

I do believe if anything good can come out of this pandemic - it will be a greater understanding that all countries need to work more collectively at dealing with infectious diseases and put more resources into future pandemic planning.
Both here in the UK and in the US poor decisions had been made taking away support systems and procedures which had previously been in place.
Most people with a medical science background knew we were well overdue a pandemic, unfortunately putting funding into any prevention is not seen as a priority by populist governments - it just doesn’t capture votes or public opinion.

I bloody hope so!

Asian countries learned lessons from previous pandemics, we should be able to do the same

Which will probably mean mask wearing in winter and other small changes.

Many experts believe that even this isn’t the ‘big’ pandemic we are well overdue. Fortunately the death rate hasn’t been as high some predicted pandemics could be.
We’re also not many years away from dangerous antibiotic resistance, or catastrophic climate change - I just hope we can act together globally to mitigate these future catastrophes.
It’s fantastic that vaccines have been produced so quickly, although I do worry that this will cause some to think that science can always solve the problems after the event, rather than planning to avoid in the first place.