Will they have to change how deaths are recorded?

[Thunderpunt]

My brain has been going round in circles with this this morning.

Currently deaths with Covid are recorded if someone dies within 28 days of a positive test, so the primary reason may be cancer or injury from a RTA, or just about anything else, but if Covid is present or has been, it also goes on the death certificate (I believe this is correct but happy to told differently)

So we have been told that with the vaccine you can't die of Covid (it was this statement I just heard on the radio that prompted my thoughts) but you can still get it.

So if someone who has been vaccinated with 2 jabs, but dies within 28 days of a positive test from something else - will they still count in the Covid deaths are recorded currently?

This is probably a stupid question, and I imagine there is a really straightforward simple answer so can someone wise help me out?!

You're wrong! Where covid is a factor, it goes on the death certificate, even if someone tested positive more than 28 days ago. Otherwise people who had been on a ventilator for six weeks then died wouldn't have covid mentioned if that was the policy.

If someone died from a road traffic accident, where covid wasn't a factor, that goes down as the sole cause of death, even if they had a positive covid test a week ago.

HTH.

Ahh that's interesting- I thought it went on the death certificate regardless.

So with regards to going forwards and people who have been vaccinated - presumably it won't need to be recorded?

Well vaccines aren't 100% effective so I'd imagine there will still be quite a few deaths with covid as a main or secondary cause for a while.

"Currently deaths with Covid are recorded if someone dies within 28 days of a positive test, so the primary reason may be cancer or injury from a RTA, or just about anything else, but if Covid is present or has been, it also goes on the death certificate (I believe this is correct but happy to told differently)"

No, it doesn't go on the death certificate. It goes into the PHE Covid deaths figures, because "death within 28 days of a positive test" is fairly quick and easy to do and gives a good early indication of what's happening.

There is a set of deaths from Covid figures available from ONS, using the death certificates, but these take longer to do, so there's a bigger time lag.

I heard a French work college tell a story of when her uncle In France died from cancer last summer, the hospital told her that if the family wish to tell the funeral home that he died from Covid, the family could get a significant discount on the funeral - courtesy of the state.

So we have been told that with the vaccine you can't die of Covid

This is the bit that is the error. We haven't been told that and we cannot know that. The efficacy of the vaccine is not 100%.

According to the Israeli data, no-one who became infected after 7 days after the 2nd vaccine so far has died.

However, out of 602,000 people thus fully vaccinated, only 608 have become infected with covid.

Of those who did become infected, most experienced only mild symptoms. Only 21 people required hospitalisation. And, of those who were hospitalised, only seven people were defined as in serious condition. None of them has died yet.

What has CLEARLY been recorded in Israel at least, is that those people had in fact received the vaccine, and all their corresponding statistics and figures are looked at separately from those who have not received the vaccine.

So I would expect that the figure for those that die of covid post-vaccination would be recorded as a separate figure and would possibly have separate criteria for ascertaining cause of death.

@110APiccadilly

"Currently deaths with Covid are recorded if someone dies within 28 days of a positive test, so the primary reason may be cancer or injury from a RTA, or just about anything else, but if Covid is present or has been, it also goes on the death certificate (I believe this is correct but happy to told differently)"

No, it doesn't go on the death certificate. It goes into the PHE Covid deaths figures, because "death within 28 days of a positive test" is fairly quick and easy to do and gives a good early indication of what's happening.

There is a set of deaths from Covid figures available from ONS, using the death certificates, but these take longer to do, so there's a bigger time lag.

Sorry, yes of course you are right, I'm conflating death certificate with how PHE records deaths and the daily stats we are given.

@Haffiana
Yes, the statement threw me about 'you can't die of Covid if you have had the vaccine' and it's what got me thinking.

The info you present here about Israel is really interesting - and what you put about separating out post vaccination deaths is what I was getting at, surely they will have to (if only to continue to track efficacy) I wonder whether they will share those with the public in the same way as the other daily figures.

@Haffiana
Yes, the statement threw me about 'you can't die of Covid if you have had the vaccine' and it's what got me thinking.

The info you present here about Israel is really interesting - and what you put about separating out post vaccination deaths is what I was getting at, surely they will have to (if only to continue to track efficacy) I wonder whether they will share those with the public in the same way as the other daily figures.