I really don't understand why this shop is fighting to stay open

[Sparklingbrook]

In local news today. That amount of fines. It's essentially a shop that sells greetings cards, not essential.

www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19096488.watch-droitwich-shop-owners-given-fourth-fine-lockdown-opening-vow-fight/?fbclid=IwAR3ppJ6EGAtbzxTqChh_5gEFy7oYLe_NtdlTM8K5VaLIkE7yZ4tAFM-naQE

Covid deniers and anti lockdown folk trying to “make a point” usually.

On the face of it, sympathetically, it’s a business trying to stay afloat. On reading the article the owner is clearly making a point and being contrary under the guise of the my first assumption.

Because the owners are idiots. They're risking their entire business and long term future to try and make a point. Morally they might putatively be right, Tesco and the like are doing very well out of this, but they clearly aren't clever enough to realise that they're more at the point where this is self inflicted and they legally don't have a leg to stand on.

I really get the staying afloat stuff. But the fines must completely cancel any staying afloat now, surely.

I was sympathetic originally - WHSmith and Morrisons nearby are open and selling cards. But I now feel they are just trying to make a point, and the staff don’t wear masks so I think it is an anti lockdown stance rather than about their business.
They also sell Christian books and cake decorating things, but the newspapers and confectionary they mention weren’t added until the November lockdown

Considering they are allowed to operate on a click and collect or home delivery type basis plus there were the government business bail outs, they didn’t have to do this to have their business survive

I’m sure the fines now are what is going to cause them to fold in addition to their legal fees. All to make a point.

Definitely not comparable to a garden centre, so not sure why she's bringing that up.

There's a larger greetings cards shop opposite and they are closed.

It's gone too far for them to back down now but unless paying £40,000 in fines is no problem to them will they survive this?

I think their total fines are £17k so far, but still a lot! I can’t see them surviving after all this, which is a shame as they must have been there for over 20 years.

@Sparklingbrook

I really get the staying afloat stuff. But the fines must completely cancel any staying afloat now, surely.

Well yes, but that doesn’t matter because that’s not actually why they’re doing it. They’re making a point about defying the lockdown restrictions so the fines are an acceptable cost of protesting that point.

@Sparklingbrook

Definitely not comparable to a garden centre, so not sure why she's bringing that up.

There's a larger greetings cards shop opposite and they are closed.

It's gone too far for them to back down now but unless paying £40,000 in fines is no problem to them will they survive this?

There's clearly more to this with the mask refusal, refusal to shut etc but I think the garden centre comparison is appropriate.

The garden centre near me is a massive Blue Diamond place where the huge indoor section selling cards, gifts, furniture, outdoor clothing etc is larger than the outdoor bit selling plants. It's really busy with the car park full everyday. It's a million miles away from the one man band, outdoor nursery in my village.

I'm not sure we needed any more evidence that the approach isn't logical though!

@RaggieDolls I suppose if they clamped down on larger garden centres only having essential items for sale it may not be viable for them to open at all and they do play a role in providing pest control measures and security (fence maintenance etc.) alongside things like providing people with the means to grow their own food.

I don’t disagree with you btw but I can see some logic in their classification.

From what I can gather the justification of Garden Centres staying open s for essential compost/petcare and gardening stuff? The fact that they sell greetings cards is similar to the fact that all the major supermarkets do.

This shop sells greeting cards/helium balloons and cake decorating equipment. The newspapers/drinks are a lockdown addition.

I just think it's a very expensive point they are making, but maybe should be admiring their commitment to the cause? Not sure.

I'm sympathetic to them and in fact went in yesterday and spent a large amount of money on cards I don't need in order to support them. The amount of government help they are getting is nowhere near enough to cover their costs. They are a husband and wife team so don't have another source of income.

I admire them and I was asking what local attitude has been like, they said overwhelmingly supportive. Of course they've also had some flack but most people are sympathetic. If you're a small business, or self employed, or part of the excluded then the amount of government support out there is low to non.

They're taking a risk with the fines but that is, of course, if they pay them. The fact that they are taking a huge risk tells me how brave they are to take a stand. Do we really want a world where it's only big corporations left?

As for the accusations that they're just anti lockdown, well I don't know if they are or they're not but I am so they get my support.

@HotChocolate12

I was sympathetic originally - WHSmith and Morrisons nearby are open and selling cards. But I now feel they are just trying to make a point, and the staff don’t wear masks so I think it is an anti lockdown stance rather than about their business. They also sell Christian books and cake decorating things, but the newspapers and confectionary they mention weren’t added until the November lockdown

The Christian books part is interesting as I know (but definitely don't agree with) some Christians of a more evangelical traditional than mine who seem to think there is a more nefarious side to this pandemic and they should be standing up against the restrictions. I stress they are a minority, I and most Christians I know are following rules and focusing on trying to help others within the rules. But there is a vocal minority and I wonder if this is part of it.

I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity?

If they don't pay the fines, what then though?

It’s a bit unfair which shops are open and which aren’t allowed to open. On Oxford Street, the American sweets and cereals shops which have sprung up in more recent years are open when every single food they sell would lead the consumer to worse health. M&S are open as long as they have some sort of food department but then have an unfair advantage in that they mainly sell clothes when all other clothes shops are forced to remain closed. And they are still selling from the clothes section.

It angered me greatly about the egotistical mask refusal. The owners were twats.

@Sparklingbrook

I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity?

If they don't pay the fines, what then though?

It’s police fines so will end up in court I imagine. If they argue unsuccessfully then the court will recover them through the bailiffs or attachment of earnings. A prison sentence could be an unlikely possibility.

I alway buy stuff like that on Amazon anyway or the supermarket, do people still use card shops

@HerrWanksock I guess only the supportive people go into their shop though so they only talk to those ones? From locally Facebook pages there is a mixture of support and people who say they will never shop there again, definitely not overwhelming support
@bathsh3ba that’s interesting on the evangelical Christian part, I wonder if that if a factor?

@User7458

I alway buy stuff like that on Amazon anyway or the supermarket, do people still use card shops

I do. I need to browse through a physical shop for inspiration and Moonpig and the like don’t really work for me unless I already have something in mind.

I really like the handcrafted ones some independent shops stock plus they generally have some pretty tat for me to pick up at the same time.

@Sparklingbrook and @Cornettoninja, you are both right. It isn't different from supermarkets being open really.

I guess what I'm trying to say is whilst I don't particularly admire her stance I can understand where her anger comes from.

I use card shops! I try very hard to shop in my local town. I want to see it survive and thrive.

[quote RaggieDolls]**@Sparklingbrook* and @Cornettoninja*, you are both right. It isn't different from supermarkets being open really.

I guess what I'm trying to say is whilst I don't particularly admire her stance I can understand where her anger comes from. [/quote]
I do see that, and why they are angry and confused. I also see that by doing what they are doing it's never going to have a good outcome, so it's hard to understand in that way.

Bailiffs coming round to seize all the greetings cards they fought so hard to sell...

I understand the anger @RaggieDolls but I think it’s self destructive, especially when there are options they could explore to continue trading. I’d understand it more 20 years ago but we have the internet now... my local Facebook has been excellent at supporting local businesses online with deliveries/click and collect, people have been going out of their way to shop locally to support them.