is this even allowed? visiting elderly relative

[Frazzled2207]

An elderly and frail relative recently moved from around 600 miles away to a care home around 30 miles away. Another relative dealt with all this and physically moved her etc. We haven't seen her for about 2 years and she is in declining health so we are keen to see her as is she to see us.

The care home was partly picked because it has a 'covid-safe' visiting 'pod' with pyrex screeen etc. so we will see each other but there will be no actual physical contact. The care home are totally fine with us visiting in this way (regardless of where we are coming from) and we are booked in for later this week. For context, the other family member lives very close to the home so is already visiting regularly.

However, I know it's legal to travel to provide care for an elderly relative but arguably we're not as there are people there paid to do exactly that. I am wondering about the legalities around travelling to see her as it will be easily the furthest we've been since the summer! And what to say if we are very unlucky to come across a police officer? Or should we not see her. She's not quite dying but I would be surprised if she outlives the pandemic.

having read this back I am so surprised this is even a question. I mean we will be going anyway but to have to question whether this is even legal.

I think strictly speaking its illegal but there's not a chance that I wouldn't go, especially given the measures the home has in place.

Go and see her.
My MIL is in a care home and they have been facilitating window visits as they call them, throughout lockdown.
It might be further than you have travelled for a while, but if you just go and then come back again, you should be ok.
Caveat - am not a Police officer!

Visiting people at end of life is an exception under the rules, but I've not been able to find any further details around that exception (we have a terminally ill relative living with us). Another relative who is a police officer admitted they hadn't been given any guidance for this scenario, but thought it unlikely he would take action.

As I understand it, the police are quite busy and in reality, few people are stopped. In the unlikely event that you were stopped, you probably wouldn't be fined and in the even more unlikely event of being fined, you would have grounds for appeal. I appreciate that that is a lot of probablys and unlikelys, but if time is precious and it sounds like it is, I would take whatever steps you need to, to visit your relative in the safest possible way.

thanks for the responses. I suppose 'end of life' is open to interpretation and she is certainly in that category IMO. Our bigger fear I suppose would be around whether or not it is safe but given the actual circumstances and the fact that she has had one vaccination around a month ago, that is not a concern right now.
Is a great shame that the law isn't clearer in this regard and we might be technically breaking the law but pleased to hear people don't think we're unreasonable for going!

This may be helpful - there is an "If you are worried about being stopped by the police" section.

www.mariecurie.org.uk/help/support/coronavirus/visiting-dying#:~:text=of%20government%20guidelines.-,Visiting%20someone%20in%20a%20care%20home%2C%20hospital%20or%20hospice,and%20things%20can%20change%20quickly.&text=contact%20the%20care%20home%2C%20hospital,ask%20about%20their%20visiting%20policy.

@PurpleWh1teGreen
Thanks a lot for that. I think it would def fall under the “you are concerned about their welfare or their mental health” category so I’ll play that card if we do get stopped. We aim to go fairly regularly so will need an excuse up our sleeve.

I know the legal issue may be of some importance to you, but, who is going to stop you? Who is going to enforce you not going?

Go. Anyone who says you shouldn't go see an ailing rand elderly relative in a safe way has lost their humanity anyway so who cares what they think.

Well indeed. In the back of my mind hearing about Amanda Holden driving to Cornwall to see her parents and getting a fine. Obviously we don’t know the circumstances in full though.

@Frazzled2207

Well indeed. In the back of my mind hearing about Amanda Holden driving to Cornwall to see her parents and getting a fine. Obviously we don’t know the circumstances in full though.

Ye but she is a celeb who was ratted on by a curtain twitching, soulless neighbour. My DH works all over the country, drives everywhere, never seen one police stop check. Ever. Nobody is going to stop you and none of your neighbours know where you are going when you get in the car. We have all become afraid to move. Its ridiculous. The fact that you even felt like you have to ask your original question just shows how far we have fallen

@Frazzled2207

Well indeed. In the back of my mind hearing about Amanda Holden driving to Cornwall to see her parents and getting a fine. Obviously we don’t know the circumstances in full though.

Are you going because it's your birthday? No? Is your relative as young and well as her parents? No

Completely different situation.

I'm glad you're going & I don't think you're terrible fir going, no.

Your 'reason' in the very unlikely chance you're stopped...'she's xx years old and just been moved to a home so you need to check on her physical & mental health'

You'll be fine. Just make sure you don't need to stop for petrol etc en route.

@TwirpingBird
I know! Thanks for the reassurance that your dh has not been stopped. I have family in Wales and people def do get stopped there but we are in England. The world really has gone mad. But I’ve not ventured more than 5 miles in goodness knows how long so a bit apprehensive

I understand OP. We drove 4 miles to give the dog a run in a forest last week. I hadnt left my estate in 5 weeks. I was very nervous.

If you go to page 4 in the law www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1611/pdfs/uksi_20201611_en.pdf in England (the Jan regs did not change this bit) you can see you can go out with "reasonable excuse". The lists that then follow are just examples. There could be 1000 more reasons that are reasonable than those listed.

Any guidance is not the law so always look at the legislation and is often wrong - eg it might say out once a day but the law says nothing about that and you could instead go out 10 times a day.
In my view you could awfully visit her.

she's xx years old and just been moved to a home so you need to check on her physical & mental health'

Exactly. No police officer is going to argue with that, and nor would the law prevent you from making that welfare visit.

Exception 4e in the link posted above covers this I think. I’m certainly using it to visit my DM in her care home 30 miles away from me in England. Not been stopped yet.

Xenia Thank you for posting that link, for me it paints a less gloomy picture. I don't want to hijack the thread, but our terminally ill relative is desperate to visit the seaside and we are looking to facilitate that.

The guidance also provides some helpful insight about childcare bubbles and outside activities. We have bubbled with eldest DD so that youngest - age 11 - DD can have some respite, although she doesn't strictly need childcare and that seems to be acceptable within the guidance

You've managed without seeing her for 2 years and now, in lockdown, you simply must go? Couldn't possibly wait til past March 8th?

There are exceptions in the rules for visiting or checking up on vulnerable people. No specifications as to the age they should be or the distance you are allowed to travel to achieve this. That can be one of your reasons for travelling.

The care home has made itself as Covid secure as possible and has booked you in to visit, so I would say just go. Your relative will love it and it will give their mental health a nice boost. That is your other reason for travelling. Your own and their mental health.

I have very vulnerable elderly parents who are not particularly well people anymore. They live 3 hours drive from me, in their own home and are coping (just about) with carers who go in three times a day and their cleaner, who also does their weekly shopping.

In reality, it is hugely unlikely that you will be stopped or questioned.

There have been a couple of dodgy moments this lockdown, from which they have fortunately recovered. If things really went tits up though I would certainly drive there and wouldn't pay the rest of lockdown any heed at all. It is still within the rules.

Go. Enjoy your chat with your relative as much as possible and know that you will have helped them in your own small way. They will feel much less isolated.

@Porcupineintherough

You've managed without seeing her for 2 years and now, in lockdown, you simply must go? Couldn't possibly wait til past March 8th?

Typical Covid Police response there.

My answer to that, if challenged to give one in my own situation, would be a very firm "NO! It cannot and will not wait, wind your neck in."

@Porcupineintherough

You've managed without seeing her for 2 years and now, in lockdown, you simply must go? Couldn't possibly wait til past March 8th?

What do you think will happen after March 8th? I don’t think these things will be strictly legal before the summer possibly later and she might be dead by then. Lockdown has been pretty much a year plus we have very young children hence not having seen her for 2 years. Previously it was once or twice a year.

Thanks to everyone else who’s been a bit more helpful

@Frazzled2207

Well indeed. In the back of my mind hearing about Amanda Holden driving to Cornwall to see her parents and getting a fine. Obviously we don’t know the circumstances in full though.

Well the chances are her excuse was total bollocks thought up once she got caught