Australia - Remote Quarantine (shades of Ellis Island)

[GADDay]

It looks like remote quarantine camps seems to be growing legs.

Howard Springs in the NT is already in operation.
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/13055008
Toowoomba in Queensland
www.queenslandcountrylife.com.au/story/7101288/toowoomba-quarantine-facility-gains-traction/

Avalon in Victoria
www.google.com/amp/s/amp.abc.net.au/article/13157224

The premise, as I understand it is that flights will land at the airports adjacent to these purpose built facilities which will have capacity to house upward of 1000 passengers. All quarantine support workers will live on site (2 weeks on 2 weeks off).

It makes sense but to me brings another dystopian twist to the tale...

Not sure why I am posting. Just seems never ending. This pesky pandemic.

[quote GADDay]2023 reported in many outlets

www.traveller.com.au/air-travel-and-covid19-pandemic-international-longhaul-travel-may-not-get-started-until-2023-h1tto5[/quote]
That just says that international long haul may not start in a regular/reliable form until 2023. No one really knows what will happen- it's a whole new situation. I can easily imagine it would be 2023 before long haul travel is up and running at capacity. I think there will likely be a slow easing of restrictions but with some countries/plane routes still subject to quarantine.

Actually vaccination is a good way out but won't keep a country at Covid zero; which is what Australia and NZ are wanting. So the question is what is their exit strategy for their closed borders/very hard quarantine??

My DH is Australian so I do know a small amount. We won't be able to see family for a long time and they most likely won't be allowed out here.

Yesterday the guardian reported 70% of Australians wanted stronger border controls than you have now. I think that's a concern for Australia long term. Is all.

Elimination isn't the end game here- it's keeping it as low as possible while vaccinations and treatments are developed and distributed so we don't end up in a runaway situation with overwhelmed resources and loads of deaths. It's keeping our local economy running as much as possible, and limiting the risk of people developing long covid.

And after the latest issues with hotel quarantine (combined with new variants) of course a lot of people want stronger controls but that phrase can be interpreted many ways. Testing and isolating before travelling, better hotel quarantine, properly paying quarantine workers so they aren't working multiple jobs, safer way of transporting arrivals to minimize cross infection...

I think 30% of Aussies were born abroad and around half have at least one parent who was born abroad. That’s a lot of extended families shattered into pieces. Heart breaking.

Thanks @spottybag - like you, I saw the 'may' and didn't take that to mean no travel until 2023.

There's the March deadline coming up soon, so we'll see what happens after that I suppose.

Definitely a may for borders opening in 2023. Following the bouncing ball I don't think this is unlikely.

I just cannot see the borders opening without restrictions much before mid 2022. Then a gradual opening which will mean less capacity and higher fares. So 2023 is looking likely.

I think its great. Protect more people (including workers who will have a lot less contact with quarantiners) and increase capacity. Allow people to cook for themselves and have fresh air and generally have a pleasant stay.
I think its an insurance really isn't it? If the vaccine works, everyone is vaccinated rapidly and it is fantastic then we might not need them for long because you will be able to come in as long as you have been vaccinated. If it all goes to shit it means we can actually get the poor people who have been stuck overseas home AND develop a way of having people come over who want to for longer holidays where it would be worth the 2 weeks quarantine if you were staying 3 months, allow people to travel every so often to see their family (with the understanding that yes, you would use up 2 more weeks holiday but that's a choice) and allow compassionate trips. If the rates of covid continue I would think that long term that is absolutely do-able compared to the alternative.

The current situation is shit for everyone. Miserable quarantine. High risk for staff. Howard Springs is the place which is doing it best

That article is about global travel in general- not Australia-only travel.
I think they'll pursue low risk options first like with NZ and some of the pacific destinations as a test case.

That's how we used to quarantine ships arriving. Where I live I can see the island, in the harbour, that was used from aroud 1840.onwards. It was a bit bleak, with the single men off on another island. But effective.

That is what I was referring to earlier. There were similar places near most big port cities. Woodman Point near Fremantle, for example. More recently, last year, they were talking about using Rottnest as a quarantine area.

@echt Not sure what 🐨 means. Sorry.

I think it’s a good idea as if nothing else it will discourage unnecessary travel. Now, where could we do it in the UK.... somewhere extra rainy and bleak would be ideal.

"I think 30% of Aussies were born abroad and around half have at least one parent who was born abroad. That’s a lot of extended families shattered into pieces. Heart breaking."

I wonder if, long term, this will mean people are less willing to up sticks and move to long-haul destinations. (Obviously I realise some people have no choice - I am thinking more of 'voluntary' emigration). It is interesting - I suppose in the 1960s, families emigrating from UK to Australia may have thought they would see their UK families again maybe twice, three times in their lives, and that was an ok prospect for them? (It would be interesting to hear if there are any Aus mners with experience of that?!)

The current situation is different because corona won't last for ever, but you could take the view that we have moved into a new era in which restrictions on long-haul travel are now always on the 'menu' of possible government measures (next virus, antibiotic resistance leading to more dangerous bacterial infections, who knows what else?) Will that affect people's emigration decisions/willingness to work abroad? For the young, will it affect choice of partner?

Not a bad idea provided it was done properly, and yes the Australians do have form for such extreme 'segregation'.

If the worldwide infection rate drops and vaccination is working then all these measures will be superfluous. I can't get worried about it

@mootymoo

If the worldwide infection rate drops and vaccination is working then all these measures will be superfluous. I can't get worried about it

@mootymoo fair enough. I assume you don't have family that you can't see?

I’m in Sydney, and my parents are in the U.K. and I think these remote quarantine stations are a sensible idea. In fact just this weekend I was talking to a friend and we said it would be cheaper for the govt to requisition islands like Hamilton in the Whitsundays, pay FIFO a workers to stay for a month etc than have this problem where one or two cases end up shutting down a whole state.

Yes I want to see my parents and travel again, but I look at what the rest of the world is going through and compare it to our life, which is totally normal; kids missed 4 weeks of school a year ago, we’ve been on beach holidays, I go out for dinner and coffees regularly, gym every day etc and I just feel that we have done the right thing here. I know we will have to accept cases and deaths when we open up, and this is sad, but hopefully we will never now have an overwhelmed hospital system because we can open up slowly, initially to vaccinated people from “safe” countries, then maybe limit quarantine to home isolation and tests etc.
Yes I want to see family but I am also really supportive of how our govt (especially our state govt) has dealt with this.

It will be interesting to see what happens in aus/nz in the long term.

Assuming vaccination won't ever be 100% effective, or 100% universal, opening up the borders will presumably lead to some cases even when the population is nearly 100% vaccinated (will it ever be? is the intention for dc to have the vaccine from 6 weeks old?) Will Aus/NZ switch to an 'ok fine, cases, doesn't matter because we now have the vaccine' approach? Or will there still be emergency lockdowns if cases appear?

I suppose a half way house to opening the borders is to maintain 2 weeks quarantine for all entrants, but allow everyone to enter. Though vaccinations won't increase the amount of quarantine space available, which I gather is one of the reasons numbers are currently limited?

Its a bit like the film Songbird - about covid mutations and q zones. Whilst clearly better than shutting down whole cities, still seems a bit dark

Agree!! You would have to pay me a LOT of money to layer up in a gazillion layers of PPE in Darwin

I dunno- I know someone who worked at Howard Springd. Said that they all worked out how long they could stay in PPE for with the heat before they took a break in air con. Apparently you had to empty the sweat out your gloves. She also said it was one of the best experiences of her life- really fun and lots of camaraderie and they tried to make it as nice an experience as possible for the people staying there and it sounded like they looked after them physically and emotionally so much better than most places

@ginghamstarfish

Not a bad idea provided it was done properly, and yes the Australians do have form for such extreme 'segregation'.

What do you mean?

@Youhavetoquitwhileyoureahead

It will be interesting to see what happens in aus/nz in the long term.

Assuming vaccination won't ever be 100% effective, or 100% universal, opening up the borders will presumably lead to some cases even when the population is nearly 100% vaccinated (will it ever be? is the intention for dc to have the vaccine from 6 weeks old?) Will Aus/NZ switch to an 'ok fine, cases, doesn't matter because we now have the vaccine' approach? Or will there still be emergency lockdowns if cases appear?

I suppose a half way house to opening the borders is to maintain 2 weeks quarantine for all entrants, but allow everyone to enter. Though vaccinations won't increase the amount of quarantine space available, which I gather is one of the reasons numbers are currently limited?

In Aus the idea is that once everyone has had the vaccine who wants it then we will open up, noting that some cases are inevitable. I think some of the measures will be here to stay for a while though and could be brought back in if it was looking necessary (masks, distancing, caps on numbers at home, in businesses, out and about etc). But the overall risk of an outbreak taking hold of the majority are vaccinated will be so much less that the need to shut down cities and states should be greatly reduced. The quarantine side of things, and the move to more tailored settings rather than hotels, is an acceptance that we will all be dealing with this pandemic for a while to come. It should also free up hotel space for travel from green zone countries as we move forward while keeping the ability to isolate red zone travelers.

Will they accept a number of cases in the future (inevitable) or will they still be locking down to contain outbreaks? Is the zero Covid policy just until everyone is vaccinated?

@Delatron

Will they accept a number of cases in the future (inevitable) or will they still be locking down to contain outbreaks? Is the zero Covid policy just until everyone is vaccinated?

I guess that will depend on how effective the vaccine is especially with variants. Could even be something like you still get tested, check you don’t have one that doesn’t respond to the vaccine and then let you out of quarantine Who knows

I would imagine Australian see some cases as inevitable once they open up. I think they will still encourage testing and will use their trace system. If the numbers become unmanageable then they may look to bring in stronger measures.

No vaccine is going to be 100% effective for any country in the world and there will be people that can’t or won’t have the vaccine, the health authorities know this and I imagine will have plans for different scenarios.

I think the more interesting question is whether they keep the 2 week quarantine. It effectively cuts off all travel to the country other than (semi) permanent migration - anyone of working age can’t reasonably take a holiday with 2 weeks of quarantine. And business travel obv decimated.